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Thread: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)
From: Cohen, Lisa A.
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 12:36PM
Subject: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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Paul, thank you very much for the suggested techniques.
Andrew, I'm confused...
Does JAWS say the group values (OPTGROUP) for you? Which keystrokes get him
to move to (and say) another OPTGROUP?
Also, I am running IE 5.5 and it doesn't show the OPTGROUP at all... you
see it in bold? Haven't tried 6.0 because most of my government users will
not have it for a while.
Lisa
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 1:47PM
Subject: Re: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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On 4/17/02 3:29 PM, Cohen, Lisa A. ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:
> Andrew, I'm confused...
> Does JAWS say the group values (OPTGROUP) for you? Which keystrokes get him
> to move to (and say) another OPTGROUP?
> JAWS only says the group values if you include them as the content of the
> <option> tag. What I
From: Mary Utt
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 2:00PM
Subject: labeling form elements for time
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I am coding a form that asks the user to enter a time of day.
We are using two select boxes, one for hours (0-24) and one for
minutes (:00, :15, :30, :45). They are positioned side by side.
These form elements are logically one item and have one text label
("Starting time"). However, the <label></label> tags are intended one
per form element. I really don't want to provide separate text labels
for each element ("Hours" and "Minutes" -- this isn't even clear --
it sounds like a duration, not a time of day).
Is there a way to label these form elements both logically and
accessibly? Does putting them in a fieldset do the job?
I am open to alternative suggestions for entering time-of-day data in
a form.
Thanks very much.
Mary Utt
SiteScape, Inc.
Maynard, MA USA
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visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Paul Bohman
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 2:12PM
Subject: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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I created a test page to show how well browsers do or do not support
optgroup. IE 6 on Windows, NS 6, IE 5 on Mac do support optgroup, but IE
6 for Mac is the only one that supports labels for option tags. You can
see the test page at:
http://www.webaim.org/paul/test/optgroup.htm
Browser support is important to those who view the page with their eyes,
but for a person using a screen reader, browser support is pretty much
irrelevant. The important aspect is screen reader support. I haven't
conducted a thorough test of all of the screen readers, but I think that
Andrew is right that screen readers will simply ignore the optgroup
groupings and read the options... I don't have quite enough time to test
this out, but this would be the next thing to investigate.
Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Center for Persons with Disabilities
www.cpd.usu.edu
Utah State University
www.usu.edu
From: Raleigh Way
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 4:15PM
Subject: RE: Reading OPTGROUP with JAWS
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I'll be there, but it is going to take me longer to get there. I
don't get off till 5, and then the drive is right at 2 hours. If you
all start at 6, we'll just show up when we get there. Is that ok?
>I created a test page to show how well browsers do or do not support
>optgroup. IE 6 on Windows, NS 6, IE 5 on Mac do support optgroup,
>but IE 6 for Mac is the only one that supports labels for option
>tags. You can see the test page at:
>
><http://www.webaim.org/paul/test/optgroup.htm>;http://www.webaim.org/paul/test/optgroup.htm
>
>Browser support is important to those who view the page with their
>eyes, but for a person using a screen reader, browser support is
>pretty much irrelevant. The important aspect is screen reader
>support. I haven't conducted a thorough test of all of the screen
>readers, but I think that Andrew is right that screen readers will
>simply ignore the optgroup groupings and read the options... I don't
>have quite enough time to test this out, but this would be the next
>thing to investigate.
>
>
>Paul Bohman
>Technology Coordinator
>WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
>www.webaim.org
>Center for Persons with Disabilities
>www.cpd.usu.edu
>Utah State University
>www.usu.edu
>
>
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Wed, Apr 17 2002 7:04PM
Subject: RE: labeling form elements for time
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Mary,
Use the title attribute. It is supported by the major screen readers and
HPR.
This is one of the situations where title is almost required because the
label text doesn't work, like two fields for zip+4 and three for a telephone
number.
This and many other tips in the new book "Constructing Accessible Web
Sites," now available from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151000/jimthatcherco-20/!
I recommend it. Authors include myself and WebAIM's own Paul Bohman.
Jim
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
From: Leo Smith
Date: Thu, Apr 18 2002 5:49AM
Subject: Re: labeling form elements for time
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Is it permissable to include the "time of day" labeling text and both
<select> form controls _within_ the <label> element?
<form>
<label>
Time of Day:
<select><option></option></select>
<select><option></option></select>
</label>
</form>
Leo.
On 17 Apr 2002, at 16:58, Mary Utt wrote:
> I am coding a form that asks the user to enter a time of day.
> We are using two select boxes, one for hours (0-24) and one for
> minutes (:00, :15, :30, :45). They are positioned side by side.
>
> These form elements are logically one item and have one text label
> ("Starting time"). However, the <label></label> tags are intended one
> per form element. I really don't want to provide separate text labels
> for each element ("Hours" and "Minutes" -- this isn't even clear -- it
> sounds like a duration, not a time of day).
>
> Is there a way to label these form elements both logically and
> accessibly? Does putting them in a fieldset do the job?
>
> I am open to alternative suggestions for entering time-of-day data in
> a form.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Mary Utt
> SiteScape, Inc.
> Maynard, MA USA
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Leo Smith
Date: Fri, Apr 19 2002 5:29AM
Subject: RE: labeling form elements for time
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Jim,
I have ordered the new book and am looking forward to reading it. In
terms of the title attribute, I have found that Jaws 4.0 on Win2000
with IE5.5 reads the title attribute fine for text input form controls.
However, I found that it does not read the title attribute on <select>
form controls. Have anyone else found this to be the case?
Happy Friday,
Leo.
On 17 Apr 2002, at 21:01, Jim Thatcher wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Use the title attribute. It is supported by the major screen readers
> and HPR.
>
> This is one of the situations where title is almost required because
> the label text doesn't work, like two fields for zip+4 and three for a
> telephone number.
>
> This and many other tips in the new book "Constructing Accessible Web
> Sites," now available from Amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151000/jimthatcherco-20/! I
> recommend it. Authors include myself and WebAIM's own Paul Bohman.
>
> Jim
> Accessibility Consulting
> http://jimthatcher.com
> 512-306-0931
>
>
>
Leo Smith
Web Designer/Developer
USM Office of Publications and Marketing
University of Southern Maine
207-780-4774
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Fri, Apr 19 2002 10:02AM
Subject: RE: labeling form elements for time
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I just double checked and you are right. I found that neither HPR nor JFW
read the title on a select menu while Window-Eyes does.
Jim
Accessibility Consulting
http://jimthatcher.com
512-306-0931
Constructing Accessible Web Sites, is now available at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904151000/jimthatcherco-20/!
I recommend it. It's a good book!
From: Mary Utt
Date: Mon, Apr 22 2002 7:03AM
Subject: RE: labeling form elements for time
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So...the title attribute is *not* the way to go here? Alternative
suggestions? Thanks.
Mary Utt
SiteScape, Inc.
Maynard, MA USA
>