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Thread: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom

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Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 3:30PM
Subject: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
No previous message | Next message →

Hi,

I generally try to ensure that web pages I work on are readable when
someone increases the font size, by using something like IE's View-Text
Size-Largest functionality. But now that modern browsers all let users zoom
the entire page, I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font size.

I talked to someone with low vision at the last CSUN that said that he
almost exclusively just increases the font size because zooming causes the
page's width to expand, thereby making him have to scroll left and right
continuously in order to read the page. It makes sense, but that's a
usability study of one. So I wanted to check with y'all and hear your
thoughts.

We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's site
in order to get it to work with large fonts. HTML containers are not very
forgiving. In a lot of cases, the container stays the same size and the
text just flows out of it, either behind or on top of other text when the
font size is increased.

How important on a scale of 1 (not important) to 5 (very important) is this
issue nowadays? Is it just a nice to have because of the zooming workaround?

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

Thanks!
David Ashleydale

From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 3:43PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:30 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
> ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font size.

I wouldn't overly worry about supporting very large text. Users that
require very large text should be using zoom or a screen magnifier.
But some some users with mild low vision need slightly enlarged text
and may increase just the text size in their browser, so it's a good
idea to support their needs.

We generally recommend supporting zoom to 200% and text sizing to
around 150%. The zoom requirement meets the WCAG 2.0 requirements,
though this is pretty much impossible to fail for HTML content. The
150% text sizing requirement adequately meets the needs of users that
may scale just text within a page.

> We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's site
> in order to get it to work with large fonts.

Some of our clients have found that conducting entire site overhauls
to support WCAG's 200% text sizing requirement would cost more than
all other compliance requirements (captioning, etc.) put together.
This is partially why we recommend a more reasonable ~150%.

Jared Smith
WebAIM.org

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 3:50PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text Size
- Largest is equivalent to?


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:30 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
> > ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font
> size.
>
> I wouldn't overly worry about supporting very large text. Users that
> require very large text should be using zoom or a screen magnifier.
> But some some users with mild low vision need slightly enlarged text
> and may increase just the text size in their browser, so it's a good
> idea to support their needs.
>
> We generally recommend supporting zoom to 200% and text sizing to
> around 150%. The zoom requirement meets the WCAG 2.0 requirements,
> though this is pretty much impossible to fail for HTML content. The
> 150% text sizing requirement adequately meets the needs of users that
> may scale just text within a page.
>
> > We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's
> site
> > in order to get it to work with large fonts.
>
> Some of our clients have found that conducting entire site overhauls
> to support WCAG's 200% text sizing requirement would cost more than
> all other compliance requirements (captioning, etc.) put together.
> This is partially why we recommend a more reasonable ~150%.
>
> Jared Smith
> WebAIM.org
> > > >

From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 4:36PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text Size
> - Largest is equivalent to?

Here's what I found in some quick testing...

IE9 (View... Text size):
Larger = 115%
Largest = 132%

Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
1 increase = 110%
2 increases = 120%
3 increases = 133%
4 increases = 150%
5 increases = 170%
6 increases = 200%

Safari:
1 increase = 119%
2 increases = 144%
3 increases = 175%
4 increases = 206%

Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
Large = 125%
Very Large = 150%

You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.

Jared

From: GF Mueden@
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 7:58PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

I use Win7 and IE9 and I don't even know if Text Size choice is
available. I used to use it but not since zooming has beem made so easy.

I am usually set for about 175% and use Ctl+Plus if I need more. As I go
up the zooming will take a long line off the screen, unless word wrap
has been provided. Failure to provide it is a "Shoemaker's Child"
problem, presented by sites that you would think would know better.

Limited visual fields may come about because of retinal damage or poor
acuity. My one eye is ten inches away from a 14 inch wide screen, a
very wide angle. I need to minimize, pull in the margins, and have word
wrap within the narrower column. Guess who won't let me? The AFB,
whose head of site operations is blind and probably uses a screen
reader. Their AccessWorld has long articles with word wrap, but only
for full screen width. If I minimize they truncate the lines.

Recently I have seen zooming within a column. I wish I had made a note
of who did it. It was very helpful.

===gm==

On 11/8/2012 5:30 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I generally try to ensure that web pages I work on are readable when
> someone increases the font size, by using something like IE's View-Text
> Size-Largest functionality. But now that modern browsers all let users zoom
> the entire page, I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
> ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font size.
>
> I talked to someone with low vision at the last CSUN that said that he
> almost exclusively just increases the font size because zooming causes the
> page's width to expand, thereby making him have to scroll left and right
> continuously in order to read the page. It makes sense, but that's a
> usability study of one. So I wanted to check with y'all and hear your
> thoughts.
>
> We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's site
> in order to get it to work with large fonts. HTML containers are not very
> forgiving. In a lot of cases, the container stays the same size and the
> text just flows out of it, either behind or on top of other text when the
> font size is increased.
>
> How important on a scale of 1 (not important) to 5 (very important) is this
> issue nowadays? Is it just a nice to have because of the zooming workaround?
>
> Looking forward to hearing your opinions.
>
> Thanks!
> David Ashleydale
> > > >

From: Patrick Dunphy
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 7:59PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Those numbers are interesting.. While I do test for font sizing I had no
idea that the size increments fluctuated so differently.

To satisfy my curiosity may I ask how you came up with the percentages?

Good info - thanks.

-PD
On Nov 8, 2012 6:37 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
> Size
> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>
> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>
> IE9 (View... Text size):
> Larger = 115%
> Largest = 132%
>
> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
> 1 increase = 110%
> 2 increases = 120%
> 3 increases = 133%
> 4 increases = 150%
> 5 increases = 170%
> 6 increases = 200%
>
> Safari:
> 1 increase = 119%
> 2 increases = 144%
> 3 increases = 175%
> 4 increases = 206%
>
> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
> Large = 125%
> Very Large = 150%
>
> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>
> Jared
> > > >

From: Jared Smith
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 9:01PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Patrick Dunphy wrote:
> To satisfy my curiosity may I ask how you came up with the percentages?

I used the inspect or developer tools in each browser to measure the
rendered text size for each setting.

Jared

From: GF Mueden@
Date: Thu, Nov 08 2012 10:52PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

As I remember it, in WinXP the zoom amount was given onscreen, and it
went up in jumps of 25%. Not so in Win7. Alas.
===gm==

On 11/8/2012 9:59 PM, Patrick Dunphy wrote:
> Those numbers are interesting.. While I do test for font sizing I had no
> idea that the size increments fluctuated so differently.
>
> To satisfy my curiosity may I ask how you came up with the percentages?
>
> Good info - thanks.
>
> -PD
> On Nov 8, 2012 6:37 PM, "Jared Smith" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
>>> Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
>> Size
>>> - Largest is equivalent to?
>> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>>
>> IE9 (View... Text size):
>> Larger = 115%
>> Largest = 132%
>>
>> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
>> 1 increase = 110%
>> 2 increases = 120%
>> 3 increases = 133%
>> 4 increases = 150%
>> 5 increases = 170%
>> 6 increases = 200%
>>
>> Safari:
>> 1 increase = 119%
>> 2 increases = 144%
>> 3 increases = 175%
>> 4 increases = 206%
>>
>> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
>> Large = 125%
>> Very Large = 150%
>>
>> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
>> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>>
>> Jared
>> >> >> >>
> > > >

From: Bim Egan
Date: Fri, Nov 09 2012 8:00AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi David,

Text resizing is still important as the person you spoke to said, Zoom in IE
makes horizontal scrolling necessary. The problem is that the horizontal
slider is very small, so if you need larger text, finding and using the
scroll bar is almost impossible.

I like Jared's thresholds, and agree that anyone whose needs exceed these
will have had to invest in zooming software, (web pages aren't the only part
of their computer that they'll need enlarged).

If it comes down to numbers affected, please don't forget that the
baby-boomers are all reaching or have reached an age where larger text may
be more comfortable to read. That's a big wealthy target market.


HTH,

Bim



----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ashleydale" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:30 PM
Subject: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom


Hi,

I generally try to ensure that web pages I work on are readable when
someone increases the font size, by using something like IE's View-Text
Size-Largest functionality. But now that modern browsers all let users zoom
the entire page, I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font size.

I talked to someone with low vision at the last CSUN that said that he
almost exclusively just increases the font size because zooming causes the
page's width to expand, thereby making him have to scroll left and right
continuously in order to read the page. It makes sense, but that's a
usability study of one. So I wanted to check with y'all and hear your
thoughts.

We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's site
in order to get it to work with large fonts. HTML containers are not very
forgiving. In a lot of cases, the container stays the same size and the
text just flows out of it, either behind or on top of other text when the
font size is increased.

How important on a scale of 1 (not important) to 5 (very important) is this
issue nowadays? Is it just a nice to have because of the zooming workaround?

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

Thanks!
David Ashleydale

From: Jared Smith
Date: Fri, Nov 09 2012 8:11AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Bim Egan wrote:

> If it comes down to numbers affected, please don't forget that the
> baby-boomers are all reaching or have reached an age where larger text may
> be more comfortable to read. That's a big wealthy target market.

And as I like to say, we're all designing for our future selves.

Jared

From: GF Mueden@
Date: Fri, Nov 09 2012 4:26PM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Ref: "Zoom in IE makes horizontal scrolling necessary."

- - - unless word wrap has been enabled.

Have I missed something? Why not enable word wrap? Does it create
problems? It is essential for those with limited visual fields.

===gm==
On 11/9/2012 10:00 AM, Bim Egan wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> Text resizing is still important as the person you spoke to said, Zoom in IE
> makes horizontal scrolling necessary. The problem is that the horizontal
> slider is very small, so if you need larger text, finding and using the
> scroll bar is almost impossible.
>
> I like Jared's thresholds, and agree that anyone whose needs exceed these
> will have had to invest in zooming software, (web pages aren't the only part
> of their computer that they'll need enlarged).
>
> If it comes down to numbers affected, please don't forget that the
> baby-boomers are all reaching or have reached an age where larger text may
> be more comfortable to read. That's a big wealthy target market.
>
>
> HTH,
>
> Bim
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Ashleydale" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:30 PM
> Subject: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I generally try to ensure that web pages I work on are readable when
> someone increases the font size, by using something like IE's View-Text
> Size-Largest functionality. But now that modern browsers all let users zoom
> the entire page, I'm wondering how much effort still needs to be put in to
> ensuring that a page is readable when a user just increases the font size.
>
> I talked to someone with low vision at the last CSUN that said that he
> almost exclusively just increases the font size because zooming causes the
> page's width to expand, thereby making him have to scroll left and right
> continuously in order to read the page. It makes sense, but that's a
> usability study of one. So I wanted to check with y'all and hear your
> thoughts.
>
> We would pretty much have to completely redesign most of our company's site
> in order to get it to work with large fonts. HTML containers are not very
> forgiving. In a lot of cases, the container stays the same size and the
> text just flows out of it, either behind or on top of other text when the
> font size is increased.
>
> How important on a scale of 1 (not important) to 5 (very important) is this
> issue nowadays? Is it just a nice to have because of the zooming workaround?
>
> Looking forward to hearing your opinions.
>
> Thanks!
> David Ashleydale
> > > >
> > > >

From: David Ashleydale
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 10:32AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Jared, it sounds like from those numbers that we should at least support
IE's "Text Size - Largest", since you list it as 132%.

Do you think it would be valuable to tell our development and design teams
that among their testing tools, they should always try IE's Text Size -
Largest and ensure that the page doesn't break? That is, ensure that all of
the text is still readable and not obscured by other page elements?

I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container size
that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without wrecking
the entire page.

We can, of course, go back to the drawing board and actually plan for how
we want the pages to look and behave when someone increases the text size,
but, man, that's a lot of work.

I might put this in everyone's back pockets as something to think about for
future pages, and to think about for the next redesign. Zooming the entire
page is probably good enough as a workaround until a redesign is done with
this in mind. I know it's annoying to have to scroll right and left (I have
to do it on my iPhone all the time), but this would cost a lot of time and
money to fix.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts!
David


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
> Size
> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>
> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>
> IE9 (View... Text size):
> Larger = 115%
> Largest = 132%
>
> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
> 1 increase = 110%
> 2 increases = 120%
> 3 increases = 133%
> 4 increases = 150%
> 5 increases = 170%
> 6 increases = 200%
>
> Safari:
> 1 increase = 119%
> 2 increases = 144%
> 3 increases = 175%
> 4 increases = 206%
>
> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
> Large = 125%
> Very Large = 150%
>
> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>
> Jared
> > > >

From: Dawn Budge
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 10:58AM
Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Your dev says it is impossible to do, is that with the assumption that the
page has to look pixel perfect or continue to flow in the same way when you
scale up just the text? WCAG specifies something has to be perceivable, not
identical.

There's a number of strategies you can adopt to make the page still
accessible when just text is scaled up, such as setting heights in ems or
using min-height instead of height, preferring display inline-block or
floats to position relative or absolute so that stuff doesn't overlap,
setting background colours on text where it might end up sitting over a
similarly coloured background, avoiding overflow hidden unless it is really
necessary.

Also, what happens if the content changes so that it wraps onto 2 lines?
Same problems?

----------------------------------------
From: "David Ashleydale" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 5:33 PM
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom

Jared, it sounds like from those numbers that we should at least support
IE's "Text Size - Largest", since you list it as 132%.

Do you think it would be valuable to tell our development and design teams
that among their testing tools, they should always try IE's Text Size -
Largest and ensure that the page doesn't break? That is, ensure that all
of
the text is still readable and not obscured by other page elements?

I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container
size
that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without
wrecking
the entire page.

We can, of course, go back to the drawing board and actually plan for how
we want the pages to look and behave when someone increases the text size,
but, man, that's a lot of work.

I might put this in everyone's back pockets as something to think about
for
future pages, and to think about for the next redesign. Zooming the entire
page is probably good enough as a workaround until a redesign is done with
this in mind. I know it's annoying to have to scroll right and left (I
have
to do it on my iPhone all the time), but this would cost a lot of time and
money to fix.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts!
David

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
> Size
> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>
> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>
> IE9 (View... Text size):
> Larger = 115%
> Largest = 132%
>
> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
> 1 increase = 110%
> 2 increases = 120%
> 3 increases = 133%
> 4 increases = 150%
> 5 increases = 170%
> 6 increases = 200%
>
> Safari:
> 1 increase = 119%
> 2 increases = 144%
> 3 increases = 175%
> 4 increases = 206%
>
> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
> Large = 125%
> Very Large = 150%
>
> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>
> Jared
> > > >

From: Jared Smith
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 11:14AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes, I think IE's largest text size (132%) is a pretty good goal. Do
keep in mind, however, that IE will not resize pixel-sized text, so
it's a good idea to also do testing in Firefox or some other browser.

Supporting increased text sizes can be very difficult. As Dawn noted,
the page does not have to look the same, it simply has to maintain
readability and functionality. Horizontal scrolling is allowable at
Level AA, but must be avoided at Level AAA. And she gave some good
recommendations for making this happen (the predominant cause of
failures is pixel heights), though these can be very expensive to
implement throughout a large site.

Jared

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:32 AM, David Ashleydale < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Jared, it sounds like from those numbers that we should at least support
> IE's "Text Size - Largest", since you list it as 132%.
>
> Do you think it would be valuable to tell our development and design teams
> that among their testing tools, they should always try IE's Text Size -
> Largest and ensure that the page doesn't break? That is, ensure that all of
> the text is still readable and not obscured by other page elements?
>
> I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
> impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container size
> that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
> someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
> readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without wrecking
> the entire page.
>
> We can, of course, go back to the drawing board and actually plan for how
> we want the pages to look and behave when someone increases the text size,
> but, man, that's a lot of work.
>
> I might put this in everyone's back pockets as something to think about for
> future pages, and to think about for the next redesign. Zooming the entire
> page is probably good enough as a workaround until a redesign is done with
> this in mind. I know it's annoying to have to scroll right and left (I have
> to do it on my iPhone all the time), but this would cost a lot of time and
> money to fix.
>
> Thanks for everyone's thoughts!
> David
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
>> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
>> Size
>> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>>
>> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>>
>> IE9 (View... Text size):
>> Larger = 115%
>> Largest = 132%
>>
>> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
>> 1 increase = 110%
>> 2 increases = 120%
>> 3 increases = 133%
>> 4 increases = 150%
>> 5 increases = 170%
>> 6 increases = 200%
>>
>> Safari:
>> 1 increase = 119%
>> 2 increases = 144%
>> 3 increases = 175%
>> 4 increases = 206%
>>
>> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
>> Large = 125%
>> Very Large = 150%
>>
>> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
>> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>>
>> Jared
>> >> >> >>
> > >

From: Susanne J├Ąger
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 11:22AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

David Ashleydale schrieb am 13.11.2012 18:32:

> Do you think it would be valuable to tell our development and design teams
> that among their testing tools, they should always try IE's Text Size -
> Largest and ensure that the page doesn't break? That is, ensure that all of
> the text is still readable and not obscured by other page elements?

Users of other browsers are able to change the prefered font-size. In my
opinion zooming shouldn't be required - pages should respect user
settings, without intervention of the visitor.

> I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
> impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container size
> that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
> someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
> readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without wrecking
> the entire page.

I think this is bad design. With moderate bad eyesight I prefer 16 to
18px font-size (depending on monitor settings) for copytext and know a
lot of pages that break if I enforce this by blowing up font-size only
(I don't like full page zoom and disabled this in my browser) or minimum
font-size.

>
> We can, of course, go back to the drawing board and actually plan for how
> we want the pages to look and behave when someone increases the text size,
> but, man, that's a lot of work.
>
> I might put this in everyone's back pockets as something to think about for
> future pages, and to think about for the next redesign.

That sounds like a good idea. It's often more easy to accept flexibility
of a layout if you plan it from the beginning.

greetings
Susanne

From: Greg Gamble
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 11:40AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | Next message →

Could overflow be set to scroll?

Greg Gamble
SBCTC - Olympia | Information Services
p - 360-704-4376
... think before printing


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David Ashleydale
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:33 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom

....
I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container size
that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without wrecking
the entire page. ....
David


On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
> Size
> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>
> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>
> IE9 (View... Text size):
> Larger = 115%
> Largest = 132%
>
> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
> 1 increase = 110%
> 2 increases = 120%
> 3 increases = 133%
> 4 increases = 150%
> 5 increases = 170%
> 6 increases = 200%
>
> Safari:
> 1 increase = 119%
> 2 increases = 144%
> 3 increases = 175%
> 4 increases = 206%
>
> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
> Large = 125%
> Very Large = 150%
>
> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>
> Jared
> > > >

From: Dawn Budge
Date: Wed, Nov 14 2012 3:01AM
Subject: Re: Increase Font Size vs. Zoom
← Previous message | No next message

If I remember right, scroll means the scrollbars always appear, whereas
overflow: auto will make the scrollbars appear when it becomes necessary.
And as they are part of the browser UI, they are accessible to assistive
technology and keyboards. The reason you don't see them that often is more
to do with how they look. (It is possible to build your own scroller with
JavaScript by the way, just so long as you remember to make the scroll
control focussable with the keyboard and listen for keydown on the arrow
keys in addition to mouse clicks and drags.)

----------------------------------------
From: "Greg Gamble" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:41 PM
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom

Could overflow be set to scroll?

Greg Gamble
SBCTC - Olympia | Information Services
p - 360-704-4376
... think before printing

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of David
Ashleydale
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:33 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Increase Font Size vs. Zoom

....
I ran this by one developer already and he said he thinks it's almost
impossible to do. He pointed to a page that has a restricted container
size
that is based on the size of the image it's next to. He said that if
someone increases the font size only, the only way for the text to be
readable is if its container also grows, but it can't grow without
wrecking
the entire page. ....
David

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Jared Smith < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM, David Ashleydale wrote:
> > Thanks, Jared. Do you happen to know what percentage IE's View - Text
> Size
> > - Largest is equivalent to?
>
> Here's what I found in some quick testing...
>
> IE9 (View... Text size):
> Larger = 115%
> Largest = 132%
>
> Firefox (using CTL + or Command + to Zoom Text Only):
> 1 increase = 110%
> 2 increases = 120%
> 3 increases = 133%
> 4 increases = 150%
> 5 increases = 170%
> 6 increases = 200%
>
> Safari:
> 1 increase = 119%
> 2 increases = 144%
> 3 increases = 175%
> 4 increases = 206%
>
> Chrome (Settings... Show advanced settings... Font size):
> Large = 125%
> Very Large = 150%
>
> You'll find that even 150% can be very difficult on some sites. A
> lower value may be more reasonable in many cases.
>
> Jared
> > > >