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Thread: JAWS reading headings that break twice

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From: Jonathan Metz
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 7:19AM
Subject: JAWS reading headings that break twice
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Howdy all!

I’ve come across an interesting problem. Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.

For example:

<h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>

is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee. Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines will be read as one header?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Jonathan

Disclaimer: The author of this email does is not intending to endorse or advocate the use of Starbucks brand coffee over other competitors.

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 7:30AM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | Next message →

2013-07-11 16:19, Jonathan Metz wrote:

> Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>
> For example:
>
> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>
> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee.

This sounds like a problem in JAWS. I would even call it a bug, since
there is clearly only one H2 element.

> Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines will be read as one header?

I think there's a limit to what authors should do to work around bugs in
browsers and related software, and this clearly is beyond the limits.

Using BR inside H2 is common and completely valid in any HTML version
(except, debatably, in HTML5 / WHATWG HTML, where BR should only be used
to indicate an actual line break in data, as in a postal address - but
this is an obscure and vague requirement). Rendering software should
adapt to it. The use of BR simply indicates line break when the document
is rendered visually and has no implications on other rendering modes
(except that BR acts as word space if needed). In non-visual rendering,
BR could imaginably be rendered as a short pause or as an auditive
signal of some kind, but that would almost always be pointless and
disturbing. Treating BR as dividing an H2 into two H2 elements is simply
wrong.

Technically, you could use e.g.

<h2>Starbucks <span class=line>Coffee</span><h2>

with CSS code

.line { display: block }

Yucca

From: Tony Olivero
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 7:34AM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | Next message →

The question I have is when is JAWS reading as two headings? If it is when the user is arrowing through the virtual buffer, this would technically be a correct presentation, since the h2 does span two lines. If it is being read twice with sequential presses of the h, or 2, keys, then that is a bug that should be reported to FS. My experience is that headings with a <br/> are read as two lines when arrowing, and a single unit when using quick navigation.

Tony
On Jul 11, 2013, at 8:30 AM, "Jukka K. Korpela" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> 2013-07-11 16:19, Jonathan Metz wrote:
>
>> Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>>
>> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee.
>
> This sounds like a problem in JAWS. I would even call it a bug, since
> there is clearly only one H2 element.
>
>> Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines will be read as one header?
>
> I think there's a limit to what authors should do to work around bugs in
> browsers and related software, and this clearly is beyond the limits.
>
> Using BR inside H2 is common and completely valid in any HTML version
> (except, debatably, in HTML5 / WHATWG HTML, where BR should only be used
> to indicate an actual line break in data, as in a postal address - but
> this is an obscure and vague requirement). Rendering software should
> adapt to it. The use of BR simply indicates line break when the document
> is rendered visually and has no implications on other rendering modes
> (except that BR acts as word space if needed). In non-visual rendering,
> BR could imaginably be rendered as a short pause or as an auditive
> signal of some kind, but that would almost always be pointless and
> disturbing. Treating BR as dividing an H2 into two H2 elements is simply
> wrong.
>
> Technically, you could use e.g.
>
> <h2>Starbucks <span class=line>Coffee</span><h2>
>
> with CSS code
>
> .line { display: block }
>
> Yucca
>
>
> > >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 7:42AM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | Next message →

I was asked this recently and found that JAWS does this when reading line-by-line only. Ins+F6 and using the heading keys results in the correct behavior.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://twitter.com/awkawk
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tony Olivero
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:34 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS reading headings that break twice

The question I have is when is JAWS reading as two headings? If it is when the user is arrowing through the virtual buffer, this would technically be a correct presentation, since the h2 does span two lines. If it is being read twice with sequential presses of the h, or 2, keys, then that is a bug that should be reported to FS. My experience is that headings with a <br/> are read as two lines when arrowing, and a single unit when using quick navigation.

Tony
On Jul 11, 2013, at 8:30 AM, "Jukka K. Korpela" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> 2013-07-11 16:19, Jonathan Metz wrote:
>
>> Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>>
>> For example:
>>
>> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>>
>> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee.
>
> This sounds like a problem in JAWS. I would even call it a bug, since
> there is clearly only one H2 element.
>
>> Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines will be read as one header?
>
> I think there's a limit to what authors should do to work around bugs
> in browsers and related software, and this clearly is beyond the limits.
>
> Using BR inside H2 is common and completely valid in any HTML version
> (except, debatably, in HTML5 / WHATWG HTML, where BR should only be
> used to indicate an actual line break in data, as in a postal address
> - but this is an obscure and vague requirement). Rendering software
> should adapt to it. The use of BR simply indicates line break when the
> document is rendered visually and has no implications on other
> rendering modes (except that BR acts as word space if needed). In
> non-visual rendering, BR could imaginably be rendered as a short pause
> or as an auditive signal of some kind, but that would almost always be
> pointless and disturbing. Treating BR as dividing an H2 into two H2
> elements is simply wrong.
>
> Technically, you could use e.g.
>
> <h2>Starbucks <span class=line>Coffee</span><h2>
>
> with CSS code
>
> .line { display: block }
>
> Yucca
>
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 8:19AM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | Next message →

Morning

Jaws announces headings containing <br> tags as a single line when
navigating by the "h" key or using the headings list (JawsKey-F6).
Only while navigating the virtual buffer with the arrow keys, does
Jaws read the individual lines inside the heading.
(tested with Jaws14 and IE10/FF21).
This behavior makes sense to me, but what makes sense to me is not
always what makes sense to everyone else *grin*.
-Birkir
Birkir Gunnarsson
Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems

On 7/11/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I was asked this recently and found that JAWS does this when reading
> line-by-line only. Ins+F6 and using the heading keys results in the correct
> behavior.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tony Olivero
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:34 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS reading headings that break twice
>
> The question I have is when is JAWS reading as two headings? If it is when
> the user is arrowing through the virtual buffer, this would technically be a
> correct presentation, since the h2 does span two lines. If it is being read
> twice with sequential presses of the h, or 2, keys, then that is a bug that
> should be reported to FS. My experience is that headings with a <br/> are
> read as two lines when arrowing, and a single unit when using quick
> navigation.
>
> Tony
> On Jul 11, 2013, at 8:30 AM, "Jukka K. Korpela" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> 2013-07-11 16:19, Jonathan Metz wrote:
>>
>>> Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the
>>> result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>>>
>>> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee.
>>
>> This sounds like a problem in JAWS. I would even call it a bug, since
>> there is clearly only one H2 element.
>>
>>> Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines
>>> will be read as one header?
>>
>> I think there's a limit to what authors should do to work around bugs
>> in browsers and related software, and this clearly is beyond the limits.
>>
>> Using BR inside H2 is common and completely valid in any HTML version
>> (except, debatably, in HTML5 / WHATWG HTML, where BR should only be
>> used to indicate an actual line break in data, as in a postal address
>> - but this is an obscure and vague requirement). Rendering software
>> should adapt to it. The use of BR simply indicates line break when the
>> document is rendered visually and has no implications on other
>> rendering modes (except that BR acts as word space if needed). In
>> non-visual rendering, BR could imaginably be rendered as a short pause
>> or as an auditive signal of some kind, but that would almost always be
>> pointless and disturbing. Treating BR as dividing an H2 into two H2
>> elements is simply wrong.
>>
>> Technically, you could use e.g.
>>
>> <h2>Starbucks <span class=line>Coffee</span><h2>
>>
>> with CSS code
>>
>> .line { display: block }
>>
>> Yucca
>>
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >

From: Jonathan Metz
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 9:11AM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks,

This is all really useful information.

Thanks!

Jonathan




On 7/11/13 10:19 AM, "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

>Morning
>
>Jaws announces headings containing <br> tags as a single line when
>navigating by the "h" key or using the headings list (JawsKey-F6).
>Only while navigating the virtual buffer with the arrow keys, does
>Jaws read the individual lines inside the heading.
>(tested with Jaws14 and IE10/FF21).
>This behavior makes sense to me, but what makes sense to me is not
>always what makes sense to everyone else *grin*.
>-Birkir
>Birkir Gunnarsson
>Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems
>
>On 7/11/13, Andrew Kirkpatrick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> I was asked this recently and found that JAWS does this when reading
>> line-by-line only. Ins+F6 and using the heading keys results in the
>>correct
>> behavior.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> AWK
>>
>> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>> Adobe Systems
>>
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tony Olivero
>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:34 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] JAWS reading headings that break twice
>>
>> The question I have is when is JAWS reading as two headings? If it is
>>when
>> the user is arrowing through the virtual buffer, this would technically
>>be a
>> correct presentation, since the h2 does span two lines. If it is being
>>read
>> twice with sequential presses of the h, or 2, keys, then that is a bug
>>that
>> should be reported to FS. My experience is that headings with a <br/>
>>are
>> read as two lines when arrowing, and a single unit when using quick
>> navigation.
>>
>> Tony
>> On Jul 11, 2013, at 8:30 AM, "Jukka K. Korpela" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>wrote:
>>
>>> 2013-07-11 16:19, Jonathan Metz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the
>>>> result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>>>>
>>>> For example:
>>>>
>>>> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>>>>
>>>> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee.
>>>
>>> This sounds like a problem in JAWS. I would even call it a bug, since
>>> there is clearly only one H2 element.
>>>
>>>> Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines
>>>> will be read as one header?
>>>
>>> I think there's a limit to what authors should do to work around bugs
>>> in browsers and related software, and this clearly is beyond the
>>>limits.
>>>
>>> Using BR inside H2 is common and completely valid in any HTML version
>>> (except, debatably, in HTML5 / WHATWG HTML, where BR should only be
>>> used to indicate an actual line break in data, as in a postal address
>>> - but this is an obscure and vague requirement). Rendering software
>>> should adapt to it. The use of BR simply indicates line break when the
>>> document is rendered visually and has no implications on other
>>> rendering modes (except that BR acts as word space if needed). In
>>> non-visual rendering, BR could imaginably be rendered as a short pause
>>> or as an auditive signal of some kind, but that would almost always be
>>> pointless and disturbing. Treating BR as dividing an H2 into two H2
>>> elements is simply wrong.
>>>
>>> Technically, you could use e.g.
>>>
>>> <h2>Starbucks <span class=line>Coffee</span><h2>
>>>
>>> with CSS code
>>>
>>> .line { display: block }
>>>
>>> Yucca
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> >> >> messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> >> >> >>
>>>

From: Michael Moore
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2013 6:17PM
Subject: Re: JAWS reading headings that break twice
← Previous message | No next message

This has to do with the way that the virtual buffer is organized. If you are reading by line (arrow navigation) then you get just that one line from the virtual buffer. The <br> tag creates a line break. If you read by paragraph, sentence, or other method JAWS will not look at the line breaks. There is also a limit to the length of a line recognized by JAWS. This is user configurable.

Mike

On Jul 11, 2013, at 8:19 AM, Jonathan Metz < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Howdy all!
>
> I’ve come across an interesting problem. Some of my colleagues are writing html headings with breaks and the result is that JAWS is reading each line as a separate heading.
>
> For example:
>
> <h2>Starbucks<br/>Coffee<h2>
>
> is read as H2 Starbucks and H2 Coffee. Is there a better way to code the HTML so headers that have two lines will be read as one header?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> Jonathan
>
> Disclaimer: The author of this email does is not intending to endorse or advocate the use of Starbucks brand coffee over other competitors.
> > >