E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)

From: Davison, Jane E (MNIT)
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 12:26PM
Subject: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
No previous message | Next message →

I would like to participate in Group 1 as well, although I could also participate in group 2 as I am a Mac/Outlook user.

Jane Davison

JANE DAVISON | ITS 3 – Usability and Accessibility Specialist
ENTERPRISE PLANNING AND ADMINISTRATION DIVISION
MN.IT @ DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES
444 Lafayette Road North, St. Paul, MN 55164-0239
651-431-4783 (w) | 651-431-7521 (f) | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Information Technology for Minnesota Government | MN.IT Services

From: Wu, Jingjing
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 12:36PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Our university use many MS products. If group 1 is still open, I am willing to join.

Thanks,
Jingjing Wu

Web Librarian
Texas Tech University Libraries

From: Gillen, Lori
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 12:42PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

I would like to participate in Group 1, and I would like to evaluate any functionality that might pose barriers for people with hearing loss.

Thank you,

Lori Gillen
McKesson Corporation

From: Thomas Lee McKeithan II
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 12:48PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

I'd like to participate in group 1. I'm a user of Microsoft products.

I apologize for the delay in responding.


Respectfully,
Thomas Lee McKeithan II | Optum Technology Solutions
Electronic Accessibility Engineer, UX Design Studio (UXDS)
MD018, 6220 Old Dobbin Lane, Columbia, MD, 21045, USA

T +1 443-896-0432
M +1 202-276-6437
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
www.optum.com
 

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 1:46PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

About the Microsoft testing groups:
Will either of them or maybe another group be testing the features within MS Office products that allow content creators to make accessible Word and PDFs?

Many bugs or "deficiencies" are in MS Word that need to be identified, submitted to Microsoft, and corrected by their engineers.

New tools within the office suite are needed to create better, more accessible documents by content creators.

Will either of these 2 groups address accessibility from that angle? Or should a third group be organized?

—Bevi Chagnon, PubCom

(who's just completed 3 straight months of teching accessible documents from Word and is very tired of telling content creators they can't do "x" because it creates an unaccessible PDF that must be hand-remediated in Acrobat.")

From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 2:00PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello Hadi,
I would love to be a part of group 1.
I already did some accessibility testing with Groove music, but I have
found so many accessibility problems with Windows products that I have
tried submitting problems and whatnot through official channels, but I have
never been contacted or seen any change.
Please, if there is any chance to be added into group 1, I would more than
love to be a part.
thank you,


Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Davison, Jane E (MNIT) <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I would like to participate in Group 1 as well, although I could also
> participate in group 2 as I am a Mac/Outlook user.
>
> Jane Davison
>
> JANE DAVISON | ITS 3 – Usability and Accessibility Specialist
> ENTERPRISE PLANNING AND ADMINISTRATION DIVISION
> MN.IT @ DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES
> 444 Lafayette Road North, St. Paul, MN 55164-0239
> 651-431-4783 (w) | 651-431-7521 (f) | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> Information Technology for Minnesota Government | MN.IT Services
>
>
>
>

From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 2:02PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Times two Bevi - They can start with better support for accessible tables!

Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 2:17PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Perhaps an additional way to work for change with Microsoft products is
to use their Customer Feedback forums, where issues can be voted up.
Note that I suggest this as an additional way; I'm not meaning to take
over this original thread.


I see Microsoft promoting these forums quite frequently, via their
Twitter channels, which I expect some of you don't monitor.


Maybe what could be effective would be to posts some specific issues,
and then post here to the list with the links to them, so people can
chime in there, where Microsoft is more likely to see. Maybe Microsoft
people lurk on this list, but I can't remember active participation from
any of them here.


I did a quick Google search, but I do encourage folks to explore
further. Below my name are some links to forums that may be appropriate.


Best,

Jennifer


One for Office 365:

https://*office*365.*uservoice*.com


One for General Office issues:

https://*office*.*uservoice*.com


One for developers of Office extensions:

https://*office*spdev.*uservoice*.com/



On 5/13/2016 1:02 PM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC) wrote:
> Times two Bevi - They can start with better support for accessible tables!
>
> Mike Moore
> Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas Health and Human Services Commission
> Civil Rights Office
> (512) 438-3431 (Office)
>
>

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 3:26PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes, Jennifer's suggestion is a good one. Combined with input by a targetted accessibility group, the open public forums can reinforce the need for accessibility.

As a professional beta tester for 30+ years for more software companies than I can count, I've learned several things:

1. Software engineers know how to program. But they don't know anything about what we users do with their software, so their understanding of what tools we need and the end-products we're trying to create is nil.

2. They don't have a clue what accessibility is about, especially those engineering teams located in countries that either haven't adopted accessibility laws or haven't yet implemented their countries' policies. The majority of software engineering teams are no longer located in the US, Canada, Europe, and other countries with accessibility laws.

3. Their bosses, who allocate the R&D funding to program features into the software, don't have a clue what accessibility is about, so they don't give accessibility the go-ahead on the development schedule.

4. Open forums are managed by the lowest level staff at the software company, usually those without much experience in programming or software use. They literally are counting the number of requests that come in on various topics, and then relaying those numbers to the upper echelons in the marketing department.

Therefore:

1. The more that we can reach the decision makers at the software companies, the greate likelihood we'll see better software in a couple of years.

2. Having a direct organized group speak directly to them is one method. Open Forums can help, but we'll need to make sure enough "numbers" make their voices heard by the forum counters. Coordination by members of the two groups is critical.

—Bevi Chagnon

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, May 13 2016 11:50PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Bevi, I had several conversations with the large group Microsoft sent to CSUN. They are definitely interested in making Office products not only more accessible but also more usable for creating accessible content.

You are absolutely on target with the disconnect between the features built into Microsoft applications and the features people who work productively with those applications need. Easily half of the Quick Access styles make no sense—"Intense Emphasis"? Give me a break!

That said, the folks from Microsoft have heard the message. They want to hear what we have to say. So participate in their forums, and follow and tweet to @MSFTEnable, the Microsoft Accessibility Twitter account. It would be easy for us to get adversarial with them, but to do so would be counterproductive. Let them know what you need their software to do. If you have developed hacks or workarounds to get it done, let them know what they are. They know they don't know, and they want to learn.

For my part, I have shared the Productivity Tab for Word 2010, which consolidates many features that support accessibility in one interface. I have also pointed them to the tutorials the Texas state agencies produced on creating accessible documents, spreadsheets, and presentations with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, respectively.

I think it would be great to get a discussion going with them about the challenges of producing accessible forms in Word. I know of at least two hacky approaches various groups use to make forms accessible in Word. It would be nice if there could be one standard baked-in approach that reliably produced accessible forms. It would be great if selection lists and all the other features that make forms highly usable could also be made to be accessible.

In talking with them, I pointed out how features they created with other purposes in mind—stylesets, for example; page background color, for another—could be used to customize presentations quickly to meet individual needs. And I learned of a feature or two that are helpful but have been well hidden.

So engage them. Make suggestions. And listen. They are eager to work with us to create the products we need.

Best,

Cliff Tyllick
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services
512-438-2494
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Sent from my iPhone
Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its fault.

> On May 13, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Yes, Jennifer's suggestion is a good one. Combined with input by a targetted accessibility group, the open public forums can reinforce the need for accessibility.
>
> As a professional beta tester for 30+ years for more software companies than I can count, I've learned several things:
>
> 1. Software engineers know how to program. But they don't know anything about what we users do with their software, so their understanding of what tools we need and the end-products we're trying to create is nil.
>
> 2. They don't have a clue what accessibility is about, especially those engineering teams located in countries that either haven't adopted accessibility laws or haven't yet implemented their countries' policies. The majority of software engineering teams are no longer located in the US, Canada, Europe, and other countries with accessibility laws.
>
> 3. Their bosses, who allocate the R&D funding to program features into the software, don't have a clue what accessibility is about, so they don't give accessibility the go-ahead on the development schedule.
>
> 4. Open forums are managed by the lowest level staff at the software company, usually those without much experience in programming or software use. They literally are counting the number of requests that come in on various topics, and then relaying those numbers to the upper echelons in the marketing department.
>
> Therefore:
>
> 1. The more that we can reach the decision makers at the software companies, the greate likelihood we'll see better software in a couple of years.
>
> 2. Having a direct organized group speak directly to them is one method. Open Forums can help, but we'll need to make sure enough "numbers" make their voices heard by the forum counters. Coordination by members of the two groups is critical.
>
> —Bevi Chagnon
>
>
> > > >

From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Sat, May 14 2016 12:33AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello,
I did not know one could create forms using Office...
A problem I seem to have is that I am not sure how to sign documents
(either PDFs or Word documents) with my signature.
So I may be totally missing this feature, but for a blind person, having
the ability to just sign by pressing a button would be amazing!

What is quick access? And why did they take out the menu bar? That is what
I would like to know... Now I am always scared I will miss something when I
am arrowing through the menus.
Also, spellcheck is not accessible anymore when one uses f7 with NVDA.
these are just a couple problems I find with word.

But I think there are usability enhancements, features and bugs. The
problem is trying to distinguish between the 3. As a beta tester, I almost
always couch something as a bug or a feature request and much of the time
the things I say are not acted on. So who do we talk to in order to get
this ms group working?
Thanks,


Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Cliff Tyllick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Bevi, I had several conversations with the large group Microsoft sent to
> CSUN. They are definitely interested in making Office products not only
> more accessible but also more usable for creating accessible content.
>
> You are absolutely on target with the disconnect between the features
> built into Microsoft applications and the features people who work
> productively with those applications need. Easily half of the Quick Access
> styles make no sense—"Intense Emphasis"? Give me a break!
>
> That said, the folks from Microsoft have heard the message. They want to
> hear what we have to say. So participate in their forums, and follow and
> tweet to @MSFTEnable, the Microsoft Accessibility Twitter account. It would
> be easy for us to get adversarial with them, but to do so would be
> counterproductive. Let them know what you need their software to do. If you
> have developed hacks or workarounds to get it done, let them know what they
> are. They know they don't know, and they want to learn.
>
> For my part, I have shared the Productivity Tab for Word 2010, which
> consolidates many features that support accessibility in one interface. I
> have also pointed them to the tutorials the Texas state agencies produced
> on creating accessible documents, spreadsheets, and presentations with
> Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, respectively.
>
> I think it would be great to get a discussion going with them about the
> challenges of producing accessible forms in Word. I know of at least two
> hacky approaches various groups use to make forms accessible in Word. It
> would be nice if there could be one standard baked-in approach that
> reliably produced accessible forms. It would be great if selection lists
> and all the other features that make forms highly usable could also be made
> to be accessible.
>
> In talking with them, I pointed out how features they created with other
> purposes in mind—stylesets, for example; page background color, for
> another—could be used to customize presentations quickly to meet individual
> needs. And I learned of a feature or two that are helpful but have been
> well hidden.
>
> So engage them. Make suggestions. And listen. They are eager to work with
> us to create the products we need.
>
> Best,
>
> Cliff Tyllick
> Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services
> 512-438-2494
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its
> fault.
>
> > On May 13, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, Jennifer's suggestion is a good one. Combined with input by a
> targetted accessibility group, the open public forums can reinforce the
> need for accessibility.
> >
> > As a professional beta tester for 30+ years for more software companies
> than I can count, I've learned several things:
> >
> > 1. Software engineers know how to program. But they don't know anything
> about what we users do with their software, so their understanding of what
> tools we need and the end-products we're trying to create is nil.
> >
> > 2. They don't have a clue what accessibility is about, especially those
> engineering teams located in countries that either haven't adopted
> accessibility laws or haven't yet implemented their countries' policies.
> The majority of software engineering teams are no longer located in the US,
> Canada, Europe, and other countries with accessibility laws.
> >
> > 3. Their bosses, who allocate the R&D funding to program features into
> the software, don't have a clue what accessibility is about, so they don't
> give accessibility the go-ahead on the development schedule.
> >
> > 4. Open forums are managed by the lowest level staff at the software
> company, usually those without much experience in programming or software
> use. They literally are counting the number of requests that come in on
> various topics, and then relaying those numbers to the upper echelons in
> the marketing department.
> >
> > Therefore:
> >
> > 1. The more that we can reach the decision makers at the software
> companies, the greate likelihood we'll see better software in a couple of
> years.
> >
> > 2. Having a direct organized group speak directly to them is one method.
> Open Forums can help, but we'll need to make sure enough "numbers" make
> their voices heard by the forum counters. Coordination by members of the
> two groups is critical.
> >
> > —Bevi Chagnon
> >
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Sat, May 14 2016 7:08AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Accessibility Collaboration Opportunities
← Previous message | No next message

Brandon, the group is brand new. Its leadership was hired just a few months ago, and some of its members have just started learning about accessibility.

Yes, Microsoft has ignored us in the past, but they are paying attention now.

The Quick Access Styles are a customizable set of styles that appear as half of the Home tab of the ribbon, so it's mainly a feature of the visual interface. The button for each style shows what that style looks like. I'm not sure that it is at all helpful if you can't see it. Frankly, because of some of the styles they include by default, it isn't that helpful if you can see it.

That commands are not easy to find if you can't see is a complaint I've heard a lot. Submit it to one of the forums Jennifer pointed out and I'll bet it gets upvoted as quickly as people who are blind get to the site.

At least for now, use the forums to make your voice heard. And be patient. They've just launched this ship, and it will take some time to get it fully under way.

Cliff Tyllick
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services
512-438-2494
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Sent from my iPhone
Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its fault.

> On May 14, 2016, at 1:33 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I did not know one could create forms using Office...
> A problem I seem to have is that I am not sure how to sign documents
> (either PDFs or Word documents) with my signature.
> So I may be totally missing this feature, but for a blind person, having
> the ability to just sign by pressing a button would be amazing!
>
> What is quick access? And why did they take out the menu bar? That is what
> I would like to know... Now I am always scared I will miss something when I
> am arrowing through the menus.
> Also, spellcheck is not accessible anymore when one uses f7 with NVDA.
> these are just a couple problems I find with word.
>
> But I think there are usability enhancements, features and bugs. The
> problem is trying to distinguish between the 3. As a beta tester, I almost
> always couch something as a bug or a feature request and much of the time
> the things I say are not acted on. So who do we talk to in order to get
> this ms group working?
> Thanks,
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Cliff Tyllick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Bevi, I had several conversations with the large group Microsoft sent to
>> CSUN. They are definitely interested in making Office products not only
>> more accessible but also more usable for creating accessible content.
>>
>> You are absolutely on target with the disconnect between the features
>> built into Microsoft applications and the features people who work
>> productively with those applications need. Easily half of the Quick Access
>> styles make no sense—"Intense Emphasis"? Give me a break!
>>
>> That said, the folks from Microsoft have heard the message. They want to
>> hear what we have to say. So participate in their forums, and follow and
>> tweet to @MSFTEnable, the Microsoft Accessibility Twitter account. It would
>> be easy for us to get adversarial with them, but to do so would be
>> counterproductive. Let them know what you need their software to do. If you
>> have developed hacks or workarounds to get it done, let them know what they
>> are. They know they don't know, and they want to learn.
>>
>> For my part, I have shared the Productivity Tab for Word 2010, which
>> consolidates many features that support accessibility in one interface. I
>> have also pointed them to the tutorials the Texas state agencies produced
>> on creating accessible documents, spreadsheets, and presentations with
>> Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, respectively.
>>
>> I think it would be great to get a discussion going with them about the
>> challenges of producing accessible forms in Word. I know of at least two
>> hacky approaches various groups use to make forms accessible in Word. It
>> would be nice if there could be one standard baked-in approach that
>> reliably produced accessible forms. It would be great if selection lists
>> and all the other features that make forms highly usable could also be made
>> to be accessible.
>>
>> In talking with them, I pointed out how features they created with other
>> purposes in mind—stylesets, for example; page background color, for
>> another—could be used to customize presentations quickly to meet individual
>> needs. And I learned of a feature or two that are helpful but have been
>> well hidden.
>>
>> So engage them. Make suggestions. And listen. They are eager to work with
>> us to create the products we need.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Cliff Tyllick
>> Accessibility Coordinator
>> Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services
>> 512-438-2494
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its
>> fault.
>>
>>>> On May 13, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Jennifer's suggestion is a good one. Combined with input by a
>> targetted accessibility group, the open public forums can reinforce the
>> need for accessibility.
>>>
>>> As a professional beta tester for 30+ years for more software companies
>> than I can count, I've learned several things:
>>>
>>> 1. Software engineers know how to program. But they don't know anything
>> about what we users do with their software, so their understanding of what
>> tools we need and the end-products we're trying to create is nil.
>>>
>>> 2. They don't have a clue what accessibility is about, especially those
>> engineering teams located in countries that either haven't adopted
>> accessibility laws or haven't yet implemented their countries' policies.
>> The majority of software engineering teams are no longer located in the US,
>> Canada, Europe, and other countries with accessibility laws.
>>>
>>> 3. Their bosses, who allocate the R&D funding to program features into
>> the software, don't have a clue what accessibility is about, so they don't
>> give accessibility the go-ahead on the development schedule.
>>>
>>> 4. Open forums are managed by the lowest level staff at the software
>> company, usually those without much experience in programming or software
>> use. They literally are counting the number of requests that come in on
>> various topics, and then relaying those numbers to the upper echelons in
>> the marketing department.
>>>
>>> Therefore:
>>>
>>> 1. The more that we can reach the decision makers at the software
>> companies, the greate likelihood we'll see better software in a couple of
>> years.
>>>
>>> 2. Having a direct organized group speak directly to them is one method.
>> Open Forums can help, but we'll need to make sure enough "numbers" make
>> their voices heard by the forum counters. Coordination by members of the
>> two groups is critical.
>>>
>>> —Bevi Chagnon
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > >