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Thread: Headings: requirements vs best practices
Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)
From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 12:55PM
Subject: Headings: requirements vs best practices
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Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning headings:
1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
Thanks,
A
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 1:09PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
I love easy questions - the answer is no to all four questions.
AWK
>Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning headings:
>
> 1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
> 2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
> 3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
> 4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
>
>I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
>
>Thanks,
>
>A
>>>>
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 1:11PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
WCAG does not require an h1 heading, nor does it limit the number of
h1 headings on your page.
Neither does it dictate what heading levels you use other than that
they reflect the hierarchy of your content, especially when that
hierarchy is visually communicated.
Imagine:
h2 Chapter 1 class="huge letters"
h1 Chapter 1, subsection 1, (in smaller letters).
h1 Chapter 1, subsection 1.1 (in even smaller letters).
This is a violation of WCAG 2.0 1.3.1, because the heading levels do
not reflect the hierarchy of the content, nor the way it is
communicated visually.
However, if you did
h1 chapter 1
h3 chapter 1.1
h6 chapter 1.1.1
it would not be a WCAG failure, though it could cause problems if you
use other headings in the document, or if the visual presentation does
not match.
Another heading failure is text that truly looks like a heading (using
CSS, maybe is implemented using the <strong> element, text on a line
by itself) but is not marked up as one.
If the <strong> element is used to emphasize an inline phrase, thatis
not a heading failure, since the text is not meant to be a heading,
e.g. is not on a line by itself.
RE SEction 508, I don't think it dictates the h1 requirement, but I
have not done SEction 508 audit in almost 3 years so I would have to
re-check.
It used to be an NFB NVA webpage certification requirement.
Cheers
On 6/21/16, Alan Zaitchik < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning
> headings:
>
> 1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
> least one H1 heading?
> 2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
> most one H1 heading?
> 3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one H1
> heading?
> 4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one H1
> heading?
>
> I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other
> levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
>
> Thanks,
>
> A
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 2:34PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
Andrew's correct. They are not required.
However, you do have to take in account the user's expectations and avoid confusion. So in that light:
1. Since users often consider H1 the title of the webpage, it's a good practice to use it for your webpage titles. But not required.
2. Since users consider H1 the title of a page or a major section, it's a good practice to not overuse it, and having more than one on a page to title major sections is ok.
Many government agencies have their own interpretations of Sec. 508 and WCAG guidelines as they apply to their specific webpages and documents. Check with your agency about its specific policies. WCAG and Sec. 508 are a bit lousy goosey for a reason: not all webpages and documents can fit into one cookie-cutter format, so the guidelines have to be flexible enough to accommodate all sorts of information.
That's where best practices for your agency and specific types of content come into play.
--Bevi Chagnon
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 3:09 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Headings: requirements vs best practices
I love easy questions - the answer is no to all four questions.
AWK
>Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning headings:
>
> 1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
> 2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
> 3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one H1 heading?
> 4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one H1 heading?
>
>I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
>
>Thanks,
>
>A
>>>archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>
From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 3:59PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
Speaking of "title" - what happened to the <title> tag? What's the expected/required relationship between a <title> tag and an <h1> at the beginning of a web page?
> On 21.06.2016, at 22:34, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> 1. Since users often consider H1 the title of the webpage, it's a good practice to use it for your webpage titles. But not required.
> 2. Since users consider H1 the title of a page or a major section, it's a good practice to not overuse it, and having more than one on a page to title major sections is ok.
Olaf
From: Thad C
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 4:58PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
<h*> tags go in the body of the document
Best
On Jun 21, 2016 2:59 PM, "Olaf Drümmer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Speaking of "title" - what happened to the <title> tag? What's the
> expected/required relationship between a <title> tag and an <h1> at the
> beginning of a web page?
>
> > On 21.06.2016, at 22:34, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > 1. Since users often consider H1 the title of the webpage, it's a good
> practice to use it for your webpage titles. But not required.
> > 2. Since users consider H1 the title of a page or a major section, it's
> a good practice to not overuse it, and having more than one on a page to
> title major sections is ok.
>
> Olaf
>
> > > > >
From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 5:04PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless once several tabs are there).
Olaf
> On 22.06.2016, at 00:58, Thad C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> <h*> tags go in the body of the document
>
> Best
> On Jun 21, 2016 2:59 PM, "Olaf Drümmer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Speaking of "title" - what happened to the <title> tag? What's the
>> expected/required relationship between a <title> tag and an <h1> at the
>> beginning of a web page?
>>
>>> On 21.06.2016, at 22:34, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Since users often consider H1 the title of the webpage, it's a good
>> practice to use it for your webpage titles. But not required.
>>> 2. Since users consider H1 the title of a page or a major section, it's
>> a good practice to not overuse it, and having more than one on a page to
>> title major sections is ok.
>>
>> Olaf
>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > >
From: John Foliot
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 5:13PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
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...ah, but the <title> element's value shows up in Search Engines... (and
is used when a user bookmarks a page)
This is why I usually recommend a titling scheme that goes from most
specific to least specific: <title>Joe Developer, | Left-handed Development
Team | Big Corp Inc.</title> - this way if the user bookmarks more than one
page at your site, they will "auto-sort" themselves (sort of); instead of
having 6-8 bookmarks that all start with "Big Corp Inc." the bookmarks will
indicate the reason for bookmarking first... (this is not a hard-and-fast
rule, but rather just some good usability/SEO advice)
JF
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Olaf Drümmer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>
> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which
> roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything about
> it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but these
> days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile devices,
> and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless once several
> tabs are there).
>
> Olaf
>
> > On 22.06.2016, at 00:58, Thad C < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > <h*> tags go in the body of the document
> >
> > Best
> > On Jun 21, 2016 2:59 PM, "Olaf Drümmer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> Speaking of "title" - what happened to the <title> tag? What's the
> >> expected/required relationship between a <title> tag and an <h1> at the
> >> beginning of a web page?
> >>
> >>> On 21.06.2016, at 22:34, Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Since users often consider H1 the title of the webpage, it's a good
> >> practice to use it for your webpage titles. But not required.
> >>> 2. Since users consider H1 the title of a page or a major section, it's
> >> a good practice to not overuse it, and having more than one on a page to
> >> title major sections is ok.
> >>
> >> Olaf
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
--
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Jun 21 2016 5:19PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>
> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless once several tabs are there).
But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For
this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's
still relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each other.
<title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of
the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not really
a case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best
practice) that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2016 1:01AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more consistent and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the content of a web page's <title> tag by using something that identifies the owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first <h1> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
Also: when you say "AT will still announce them", how would that apply to AT other then screen readers?
Olaf
> On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>>
>> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless once several tabs are there).
>
> But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's still relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
>
> Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each other. <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not really a case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best practice) that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > >
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2016 4:49AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
I remind people that the title element is the text that gets posted
when users share the URL to the page on Facebook. It often helps. :)
The title element is still the first thing that screen readers
announce when a page load, or when switching between tabs , on desktop
and mobile. Also when identifying a page in your browsing history (if
you type in a word in the address bar, then press arrow down to see if
browser has suggestions based on your browsing history).
It is a shame if browsers have started hiding this info for users in general.
I have both seen (well heard) and written JQuery code that takes the
contents of the h1 heading to construct a page title, using the
pattern that Mr. Foliot described. It is convenient.
Having the page title and the h1 heading content match is only a best
practice though.
Cheers
-B
On 6/22/16, Olaf Drümmer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more consistent
> and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the
> content of a web page's <title> tag by using something that identifies the
> owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first <h1>
> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
>
> Also: when you say "AT will still announce them", how would that apply to AT
> other then screen readers?
>
> Olaf
>
>
>> On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>>> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>>>
>>> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which
>>> roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything
>>> about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title,
>>> but these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on
>>> mobile devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty
>>> useless once several tabs are there).
>>
>> But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For
>> this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's still
>> relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
>>
>> Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each other.
>> <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of
>> the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not really a
>> case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best practice)
>> that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
>>
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>> >> >> >> >
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Marc Solomon
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2016 6:49AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
In my opinion, placing the contents of the first <h1> before the owner/publisher information in the page title would be preferred from a usability perspective. Doing so would allow a screen reader user to identify the purpose of the page more quickly. Hope this is an option for your project.
Best,
Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:02 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Headings: requirements vs best practices
As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more consistent and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the content of a web page's <title> tag by using something that identifies the owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first <h1> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
Also: when you say "AT will still announce them", how would that apply to AT other then screen readers?
Olaf
> On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>>
>> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all? Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless once several tabs are there).
>
> But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's still relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
>
> Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each other. <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not really a case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best practice) that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>
From: Srinivasu Chakravarthula
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2016 7:23AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
I completely agree.
Regards,
Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
Let's create an inclusive web!
Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
Hon. Joint Secretary, The National Association for the Blind, Karnataka
Branch
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Marc Solomon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> In my opinion, placing the contents of the first <h1> before the
> owner/publisher information in the page title would be preferred from a
> usability perspective. Doing so would allow a screen reader user to
> identify the purpose of the page more quickly. Hope this is an option for
> your project.
> Best,
> Marc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:02 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Headings: requirements vs best practices
>
> As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more consistent
> and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the
> content of a web page's <title> tag by using something that identifies the
> owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first <h1>
> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
>
> Also: when you say "AT will still announce them", how would that apply to
> AT other then screen readers?
>
> Olaf
>
>
> > On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> >
> > On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
> >> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
> >>
> >> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all?
> Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate anything
> about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title, but
> these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile
> devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless
> once several tabs are there).
> >
> > But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For
> this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's still
> relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
> >
> > Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each other.
> <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of
> the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not really a
> case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best practice)
> that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
> >
> > P
> > --
> > Patrick H. Lauke
> >
> > www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> > http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2016 7:16PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
Thank you to all who responded.
I guess there is both good and bad news for me in this thread. The bad
news is that I have been telling developers, incorrectly it turns out,
that we must have exactly one H1 on a page and that we cannot ³skip²
heading levels. I did this because the tools I have used for testing
accessibility have insisted on these requirements, both the ³Accessibility
Inspector² plugin for Firefox, which is more explicitly WCAG 2.0 oriented,
as well as the Firefox Accessibility Extension, which seems to me rather
like the Web Accessibility Toolbar I have used with IE. From what this
thread makes clear, there are no such requirements.
The good news, I guess, is that my insistence on these ³best practices"
for headings has in fact probably made the pages more accessible! Isn¹t
that our goal, anyway?
But it makes me wonder about all the other rules used by the AInspector
and Firefox Accessibility Extension and other tools, e.g. ARIA rules about
landmarks, roles, etc. We sometimes have to do contortions to avoid
nesting two <nav> sections one inside another (or, equivalently, placing a
DIV with a role of navigation inside another such DIV). Is this another
³false positive² of the AInspector which we should ignore? And so on.
A
On 6/22/16, 9:23 AM, "Srinivasu Chakravarthula" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
>I completely agree.
>
>Regards,
>
>Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
>Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
>
>Let's create an inclusive web!
>
>Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
>Hon. Joint Secretary, The National Association for the Blind, Karnataka
>Branch
>
>On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Marc Solomon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, placing the contents of the first <h1> before the
>> owner/publisher information in the page title would be preferred from a
>> usability perspective. Doing so would allow a screen reader user to
>> identify the purpose of the page more quickly. Hope this is an option
>>for
>> your project.
>> Best,
>> Marc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
>> Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:02 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Headings: requirements vs best practices
>>
>> As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more
>>consistent
>> and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the
>> content of a web page¹s <title> tag by using something that identifies
>>the
>> owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first
>><h1>
>> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
>>
>> Also: when you say "AT will still announce them², how would that apply
>>to
>> AT other then screen readers?
>>
>> Olaf
>>
>>
>> > On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
>> >> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
>> >>
>> >> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all?
>> Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate
>>anything
>> about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title,
>>but
>> these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile
>> devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless
>> once several tabs are there).
>> >
>> > But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For
>> this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's
>>still
>> relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
>> >
>> > Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each
>>other.
>> <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of
>> the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not
>>really a
>> case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best
>>practice)
>> that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
>> >
>> > P
>> > --
>> > Patrick H. Lauke
>> >
>> > www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>> > http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>> > >> > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> > >>
>> >> >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Thu, Jun 23 2016 7:37AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
I am going to disagree with some of the comments in this thread.
They are correct that no where in 508 you will see thou must use headings.
However you can interpret 508 to say headings should be used. In 508, a
common practice is to say: if something within 1194.2x is used, then
1194.31 and 1194.41 is applicable. Within 31, there is a requirement for
keyboard accessibility, you could argue things like headings are included
into this because some AT allows heading navigation
Ryan E. Benson
On Jun 21, 2016 14:55, "Alan Zaitchik" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning
> headings:
>
> 1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
> least one H1 heading?
> 2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
> most one H1 heading?
> 3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one
> H1 heading?
> 4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one
> H1 heading?
>
> I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other
> levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
>
> Thanks,
>
> A
> > > > >
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Jun 23 2016 8:54AM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | Next message →
You can nest a navigation region in another navigation region.
The regions you are not allowed to nest are banner, main and content
info (unless the page itself has nested pages within it, such as
frames).
In any case if you use headings or skip links you satisfy 2.4.1
I strongly recommend ARIA landmarks, because when used correctly they
provide consistent and clear description of how the page content is
organied, one that corresponds closely to how people inspect the page
visually.
On 6/23/16, Ryan E. Benson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I am going to disagree with some of the comments in this thread.
>
> They are correct that no where in 508 you will see thou must use headings.
> However you can interpret 508 to say headings should be used. In 508, a
> common practice is to say: if something within 1194.2x is used, then
> 1194.31 and 1194.41 is applicable. Within 31, there is a requirement for
> keyboard accessibility, you could argue things like headings are included
> into this because some AT allows heading navigation
>
> Ryan E. Benson
> On Jun 21, 2016 14:55, "Alan Zaitchik" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Can someone help resolve the questions we've been tussling with concerning
>> headings:
>>
>> 1. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
>> least one H1 heading?
>> 2. Is it a legal requirement (section 508) that each web page have at
>> most one H1 heading?
>> 3. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at least one
>> H1 heading?
>> 4. Does WCAG 2.0 level AA require that each web page have at most one
>> H1 heading?
>>
>> I want to ask similar questions about the ordering of headings at other
>> levels, but let me start with H1 to begin with.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> A
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: _mallory
Date: Thu, Jun 23 2016 2:57PM
Subject: Re: Headings: requirements vs best practices
← Previous message | No next message
A <nav> with a <nav> inside it just seems illogical, what's a user
supposed to think with that?
Probably an example would clear it up.
While the "one and only one h1 per page" isn't legally required,
it's good that tools still flag it, especially as there are
still developers who believe they can use h1 for all headings
and let the document outline adjust the heading levels as needed.
As for skipping heading levels, if I have minor content in source
before major content, I'm going to have things like h2's and h3's
before the h1. That's just the way a lot of web pages are built:
the "site chrome" content is different from the "unique page"
content, yet sit side by side. A website's not accessed like a
book.
I do flag it myself when I see (just saw this yesterday) an h1
followed by an h5. It seems done for styling reasons, even in
this day of CSS being almost 20 years old.
_mallory
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 01:16:39AM +0000, Alan Zaitchik wrote:
> Thank you to all who responded.
>
> I guess there is both good and bad news for me in this thread. The bad
> news is that I have been telling developers, incorrectly it turns out,
> that we must have exactly one H1 on a page and that we cannot ³skip²
> heading levels. I did this because the tools I have used for testing
> accessibility have insisted on these requirements, both the ³Accessibility
> Inspector² plugin for Firefox, which is more explicitly WCAG 2.0 oriented,
> as well as the Firefox Accessibility Extension, which seems to me rather
> like the Web Accessibility Toolbar I have used with IE. From what this
> thread makes clear, there are no such requirements.
>
> The good news, I guess, is that my insistence on these ³best practices"
> for headings has in fact probably made the pages more accessible! Isn¹t
> that our goal, anyway?
>
> But it makes me wonder about all the other rules used by the AInspector
> and Firefox Accessibility Extension and other tools, e.g. ARIA rules about
> landmarks, roles, etc. We sometimes have to do contortions to avoid
> nesting two <nav> sections one inside another (or, equivalently, placing a
> DIV with a role of navigation inside another such DIV). Is this another
> ³false positive² of the AInspector which we should ignore? And so on.
>
> A
>
>
>
> On 6/22/16, 9:23 AM, "Srinivasu Chakravarthula" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> >I completely agree.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Srinivasu Chakravarthula - Twitter: http://twitter.com/CSrinivasu/
> >Website: http://www.srinivasu.org | http://serveominclusion.com
> >
> >Let's create an inclusive web!
> >
> >Lead Accessibility Consultant, Informatica
> >Hon. Joint Secretary, The National Association for the Blind, Karnataka
> >Branch
> >
> >On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Marc Solomon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> In my opinion, placing the contents of the first <h1> before the
> >> owner/publisher information in the page title would be preferred from a
> >> usability perspective. Doing so would allow a screen reader user to
> >> identify the purpose of the page more quickly. Hope this is an option
> >>for
> >> your project.
> >> Best,
> >> Marc
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> >> Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:02 AM
> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Headings: requirements vs best practices
> >>
> >> As anything that can be done automatically will usually be more
> >>consistent
> >> and less error prone: would it be considered to automatically build the
> >> content of a web page¹s <title> tag by using something that identifies
> >>the
> >> owner/publisher of the website, followed by the contents of the first
> >><h1>
> >> (assuming it reflects the intended on page title of the web page)?
> >>
> >> Also: when you say "AT will still announce them², how would that apply
> >>to
> >> AT other then screen readers?
> >>
> >> Olaf
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 22.06.2016, at 01:19, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On 22/06/2016 00:04, Olaf Drümmer wrote:
> >> >> Right, and the <title> tag goes in the head.
> >> >>
> >> >> But how does the <title> title relate to the <h1> title, if at all?
> >> Which roles does <title> play? Does WCAG or anything else mandate
> >>anything
> >> about it? The <title> tag used to show up in the document window title,
> >>but
> >> these days document window titles are often gone (definitely on mobile
> >> devices, and in tabbed window browsers they have become pretty useless
> >> once several tabs are there).
> >> >
> >> > But AT will still announce them when, say, switching between tabs. For
> >> this reason (as well as those mentioned by John Foliot) I'd say it's
> >>still
> >> relevant, in light of 2.4.2 Page titled.
> >> >
> >> > Ideally, <title> and <h1> should be complementary/reinforce each
> >>other.
> >> <title> would often include more information (e.g. the actual section of
> >> the site you're in, as well as the actual site name), so it's not
> >>really a
> >> case of both having to have exact same content - just (as a best
> >>practice)
> >> that they shouldn't contradict each other, I'd say...
> >> >
> >> > P
> >> > --
> >> > Patrick H. Lauke
> >> >
> >> > www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> >> > http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> >> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> >> > > >> > > >> > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >>
> >> > >> > >> at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >
>
> > > >