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Thread: ARIA Attributes
Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 11:37AM
Subject: ARIA Attributes
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Folks,
Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or aria-labelledby?
We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share of experience with those 2.
What do you recommend using and why?
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: Jim Homme
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 11:43AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Jamous,
Out of curiosity, are you also considering AriaLabel, or have you ruled that out for some reason?
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Folks,
Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or aria-labelledby?
We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share of experience with those 2.
What do you recommend using and why?
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: Paul J. Adam
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 11:56AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes
← Previous message | Next message →
Both! :) They are used for different purposes, aria-label or aria-labelledby is for the Accessible Name the "Label", aria-describedby is for the Accessible Description. Title attribute from HTML4 is also an attribute that becomes the accessible description in the Accessibility API. <label> = accessible name. Label should be short, longer input instruction text should be in the accessible description to keep the label concise.
Both attributes are very well supported in most screen readers and browser combinations.
Paul J. Adam
Accessibility Evangelist
www.deque.com
> On Aug 22, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Jamous, JP < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or aria-labelledby?
>
> We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
>
> Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share of experience with those 2.
>
> What do you recommend using and why?
>
>
>
>
> **************************************************
>
> Jean-Pierre Jamous
> Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
> UI Accessibility Team
>
> The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
>
> **************************************************
>
>
> > > >
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 12:02PM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes
← Previous message | Next message →
Not considering it as I want to reference error messages through IDs.
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jim Homme
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 12:43 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Hi Jamous,
Out of curiosity, are you also considering AriaLabel, or have you ruled that out for some reason?
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Folks,
Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or aria-labelledby?
We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share of experience with those 2.
What do you recommend using and why?
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: Jim Homme
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 12:39PM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Jamous,
I think you can use ID.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 2:02 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Not considering it as I want to reference error messages through IDs.
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jim Homme
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 12:43 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Hi Jamous,
Out of curiosity, are you also considering AriaLabel, or have you ruled that out for some reason?
Thanks.
Jim
=========Jim Homme,
Accessibility Consultant,
Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
412-787-8567,
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
E+R=O
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jamous, JP
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
Folks,
Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or aria-labelledby?
We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share of experience with those 2.
What do you recommend using and why?
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Mon, Aug 22 2016 6:21PM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes
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You cannot use aria-labelledby for error messages.
aria-labelledby is used to connect a form field with an element
containing its label (it is always preferable to use the html label
element, either wrapped around the form field and the text or with a
for attribute whose ID matches the ID of the input field).
This gets mapped to the elements accessible name.
It is supposed to be short and descriptive.
<span id="lbl">Please enter your name</label>
<input type="text" aria-labelledby="lbl">
aria-describedby is supposed to be used for instructions of further
information, including (for the moment) error messages.
<span id="lbl">Please enter your name</label>
<span id="instr">Can only contain white space and characters, cannot
exceed 40 characters.</span>
<input type="text" aria-labelledby="lbl" aria-describedby="instr">
You can also provide the accessible description through the title attribute
<input type="text" aria-labelledby="lbl" title="Can only contain white
space and characters must not exceed 40 characters">
(in fact, if there is no other source for the accessible name, the
value of the title attribute, if present, is used).
For error messages you need to use aria-describedby.
If it already has a reference to the instructions, you put the ID of
the error message string before the ID of the instructions.
<span id="lbl">Please enter your name</label>
<span id="instr">Can only contain white space and characters, cannot
exceed 40 characters.</span>
<input type="text" aria-labelledby="lbl" aria-describedby="errMsg, instr">
<span id="errMsg">Error: name must not be empty.</span>
ARIA 1.1 is defining a different way to reference error messages, but
the spec is not finalized yet, and there is little or no support for
it in the user agents.
Cheers
-B
On 8/22/16, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Jamous,
> I think you can use ID.
>
> Jim
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme,
> Accessibility Consultant,
> Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
> Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
> 412-787-8567,
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> E+R=O
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Jamous, JP
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 2:02 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
>
> Not considering it as I want to reference error messages through IDs.
>
>
>
>
> **************************************************
>
> Jean-Pierre Jamous
> Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
>
> The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
>
> **************************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Jim Homme
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 12:43 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
>
> Hi Jamous,
> Out of curiosity, are you also considering AriaLabel, or have you ruled that
> out for some reason?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
> =========> Jim Homme,
> Accessibility Consultant,
> Bender HighTest Accessibility Team
> Bender Consulting Services, Inc.,
> 412-787-8567,
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> E+R=O
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Jamous, JP
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:38 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes
>
> Folks,
>
> Based on experience and not literature , what is best, aria-describedby or
> aria-labelledby?
>
> We know that aria-describedby has issues with JAWS. How about Labelledby?
>
> Just want to hear some feedback from those who has gotten their fair share
> of experience with those 2.
>
> What do you recommend using and why?
>
>
>
>
> **************************************************
>
> Jean-Pierre Jamous
> Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer UI Accessibility Team
>
> The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
>
> **************************************************
>
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:31AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
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I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like this?
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
From: Shane Anderson
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:46AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an instance where an accessibility fix
would affect page load. What suggestion did you make?
Regards
Shane Anderson
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
> accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could
> affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like
> this?
> >
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information
> transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity
> to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission,
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any
> action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you
> have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and
> delete the material from your computer.
> > > > >
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:49AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
I would like to know too. That's the weirdest thing I've heard.
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Shane Anderson
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:47 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an instance where an accessibility fix would affect page load. What suggestion did you make?
Regards
Shane Anderson
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
> accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it
> could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of
> anything like this?
> >
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this
> message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or
> other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this
> information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:58AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
Was their specific concern that it would impact how long it takes the page to load or how it impacts the performance after the page has loaded?
I think I missed the suggestion you provided to them.
IF your solution is complex and requires a lot of code or other resources, it could have a noticeable impact to page load time. However, there are usually things you can do to mitigate the issue. Sometimes, smaller changes can have an impact on page load time, but then the problem is usually how the developer is managing the resources and by handling the resources differently they can manage the page load times better.
You might also want to ask them questions on why they think the additional accessibility improvements would impact performance. They may have real or perceived concerns, but by knowing the details you might be able to resolve the concerns for them.
Thanks,
Tim
I didn't catch what your suggestion was?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:32 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like this?
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
From: Jamous, JP
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:11AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
On second thoughts, it might impact SEO ranking. That's another one they frown upon.
**************************************************
Jean-Pierre Jamous
Digital Accessibility Specialist & Developer
UI Accessibility Team
The only limitations in life are those we set for ourselves
**************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tim Harshbarger
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:59 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
Was their specific concern that it would impact how long it takes the page to load or how it impacts the performance after the page has loaded?
I think I missed the suggestion you provided to them.
IF your solution is complex and requires a lot of code or other resources, it could have a noticeable impact to page load time. However, there are usually things you can do to mitigate the issue. Sometimes, smaller changes can have an impact on page load time, but then the problem is usually how the developer is managing the resources and by handling the resources differently they can manage the page load times better.
You might also want to ask them questions on why they think the additional accessibility improvements would impact performance. They may have real or perceived concerns, but by knowing the details you might be able to resolve the concerns for them.
Thanks,
Tim
I didn't catch what your suggestion was?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:32 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like this?
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
From: Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:24AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
I was having them mark up the carousel as a tab panel. There was already some weird aria in there, including marking the slides up as role="option". The aria-label was for a series of buttons, one for each tab, that have no text equivalent. I wanted them labeled as "slide 1 of 5" etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tim Harshbarger
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:59 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
Was their specific concern that it would impact how long it takes the page to load or how it impacts the performance after the page has loaded?
I think I missed the suggestion you provided to them.
IF your solution is complex and requires a lot of code or other resources, it could have a noticeable impact to page load time. However, there are usually things you can do to mitigate the issue. Sometimes, smaller changes can have an impact on page load time, but then the problem is usually how the developer is managing the resources and by handling the resources differently they can manage the page load times better.
You might also want to ask them questions on why they think the additional accessibility improvements would impact performance. They may have real or perceived concerns, but by knowing the details you might be able to resolve the concerns for them.
Thanks,
Tim
I didn't catch what your suggestion was?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:32 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like this?
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
From: Weissenberger, Todd M
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:28AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
No way. That's dev-speak for "I don't want to."
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Anderson [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:47 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an instance where an accessibility fix would affect page load. What suggestion did you make?
Regards
Shane Anderson
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
> accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it
> could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of
> anything like this?
> >
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this
> message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or
> other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this
> information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: Shane Anderson
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:37AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
+1 to what Todd said.
Regards
Shane Anderson
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Weissenberger, Todd M <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> No way. That's dev-speak for "I don't want to."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Anderson [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:47 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an instance where an accessibility fix
> would affect page load. What suggestion did you make?
>
> Regards
> Shane Anderson
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
> > accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it
> > could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of
> > anything like this?
> > > >
> > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> > solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> > information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
> > individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this
> > message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> > any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or
> > other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this
> > information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material from your computer.
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
> > > > >
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:41AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
← Previous message | Next message →
> I was having them mark up the carousel as a tab panel.
I would generally say Carousels should not be tab panels. Here is a link to a WAI tutorial on how to create Carousels
https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/carousels/
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)
Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog
Check out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:25 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I was having them mark up the carousel as a tab panel. There was already some weird aria in there, including marking the slides up as role="option". The aria-label was for a series of buttons, one for each tab, that have no text equivalent. I wanted them labeled as "slide 1 of 5" etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Tim Harshbarger
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:59 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
Was their specific concern that it would impact how long it takes the page to load or how it impacts the performance after the page has loaded?
I think I missed the suggestion you provided to them.
IF your solution is complex and requires a lot of code or other resources, it could have a noticeable impact to page load time. However, there are usually things you can do to mitigate the issue. Sometimes, smaller changes can have an impact on page load time, but then the problem is usually how the developer is managing the resources and by handling the resources differently they can manage the page load times better.
You might also want to ask them questions on why they think the additional accessibility improvements would impact performance. They may have real or perceived concerns, but by knowing the details you might be able to resolve the concerns for them.
Thanks,
Tim
I didn't catch what your suggestion was?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Lovely, Brian (CONT)
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:32 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything like this?
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From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:56AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
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I would still recommend asking them additional questions on why they think it is a problem. It is probably best to dig into the details.
Just adding roles and attributes shouldn't cause a problem. However, it can be easy to forget that sometimes additional javascript needs to be created to support ensuring the roles and attributes actually do something meaningful. Their concern could possibly be with the additional javascript code they think they need to write in addition to whatever code they already created for the carousel.
Honestly, a lot of times how much accessibility progress we can make on a user interface depends on the type and nature of the relationships we build with the rest of the project team. I definitely know there are some "bad actors" who have negative opinions about accessibility. However, I find it useful to keep asking "why?" when they say something can't or shouldn't be done until I have a better understanding of the concern. There are times when they might be misunderstanding and clarifying the misunderstanding works to remove the problem. There are many times when they have real concerns or limitations that need to be addressed--which might be best addressed by taking another approach.
I don't know what they are thinking--but just for one example. Perhaps their current page load time is already a problem and they have a real concern that adding the functionality will just make the problem even more noticeable. They might be in a situation where they need to completely rewrite the code for the user interface to really address the page load concerns, but they can't do that now--which might make them sensitive to adding additional functionality.
And even if their reasons for not doing it are just excuses for not doing more work--asking for more details will help make that clearer. IN which case, you may need to look at other approaches that will address that problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Shane Anderson
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 9:38 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
+1 to what Todd said.
Regards
Shane Anderson
On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Weissenberger, Todd M <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> No way. That's dev-speak for "I don't want to."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Anderson [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 8:47 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an instance where an accessibility fix
> would affect page load. What suggestion did you make?
>
> Regards
> Shane Anderson
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
> > accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it
> > could affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of
> > anything like this?
> > > >
> > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> > solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> > information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the
> > individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this
> > message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> > any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or
> > other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this
> > information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material from your computer.
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
> > > > >
From: Middleton, John
Date: Thu, Aug 25 2016 10:09AM
Subject: Re: ARIA Attributes Affecting Page Load?
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Following the WCAG Guidelines would "affect performance" as long as they
are validating the XHTML & CSS, with fewer or no errors. Theoretically the
page should load faster as well as improve positively possibly impacting
SEO, SEM.
You may also try an online (free) performance page analyzer (E.G.
www.webpagetest.org) for actual measurement and numbers. There are plenty
more available using the searching the term "web page performance test".
If there's concern for performance, give them ammo and a target to improve
upon.
Without a URI and details all anyone on WebAIM can do is speculate. Ask
more questions...
Good luck,
John Middleton
>
>On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Lovely, Brian (CONT) <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>>I was just told by a development team that they did not implement my
>>accessibility suggestion because (in part) " in our experience it could
>>affect performance when loading the page" Has anyone heard of anything
>>like
>>this?
>>