E-mail List Archives

Thread: Accessibility of + and -

for

Number of posts in this thread: 26 (In chronological order)

From: McGarvey, Paul
Date: Tue, Dec 06 2016 7:00AM
Subject: Accessibility of + and -
No previous message | Next message →

Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting the Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there that a lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this quarter were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal evidence.

Paul McGarvey
Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch
Digital Publishing Division | Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol
Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101
Office for National Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol
Government Buildings | Adeiladau'r Llywodraeth
Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd
Newport | Casnewydd
NP10 8XG
Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019


For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy
on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the
Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: JP Jamous
Date: Tue, Dec 06 2016 8:47AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do code wise. I like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors. The default is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.

If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are necessary to have read, I either change the setting or read by char.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting the Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there that a lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this quarter were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal evidence.

Paul McGarvey
Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing Division | Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for National Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings | Adeiladau'r Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
NP10 8XG
Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019


For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Dec 06 2016 10:00AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

On 06/12/2016 14:00, McGarvey, Paul wrote:
> Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting
> the Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> there that a lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the
> punctuation off" and thus would miss a crucial character in a
> sentence like "exports for this quarter were -0.2". However, want to
> know more about this for looking for any blogs/articles/guidance
> anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal evidence.

Screen readers will use heuristics to try and determine when something
is punctuation and when it's actually a character that needs to be
announced/a modifier. So the "-0.2" should be read out correctly in most
cases (not had a chance to test, but from memory/experience that should
be fine), but if you had "- 0.2" with a space, it likely will not.

If the characters are used as the only visible label for, say, a button,
then you'd probably want to add a very explicit aria-label or similar,
e.g. <button aria-label="Add an item">+</button>. Perhaps even
explicitly hide the character to avoid some double-reading of the label
and the character, e.g. <button aria-label="Add an item"><span
aria-hidden="true">+</span></button>.

Similarly, if you have situations where punctuation characters
absolutely have to be used, but are not correctly announced by AT, you
may want to hide the visible characters / entire section and provide
visually hidden but accessible AT friendly alternatives, e.g. <span
aria-hidden="true">...</span><span class="sr-only">...</span>

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Joshua Hori
Date: Tue, Dec 06 2016 12:31PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read aloud?

Joshua

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of JP Jamous
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do code wise. I like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors. The default is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.

If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are necessary to have read, I either change the setting or read by char.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting the Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there that a lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this quarter were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal evidence.

Paul McGarvey
Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing Division | Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for National Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings | Adeiladau'r Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
NP10 8XG
Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019


For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Dec 06 2016 12:37PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
settings).
I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
reader options.
That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should work
out for themselves.
It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies punctuation
levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could pick it up and
adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that page.



On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read aloud?
>
> Joshua
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of JP Jamous
> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do code wise. I
> like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors. The default
> is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
>
> If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are necessary to
> have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of McGarvey, Paul
> Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting the
> Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there that a
> lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus
> would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this quarter
> were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any
> blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal
> evidence.
>
> Paul McGarvey
> Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing Division |
> Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for National
> Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings | Adeiladau'r
> Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> NP10 8XG
> Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
>
>
> For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics
> at http://www.ons.gov.uk
>
> ***********************************************************************************************
> Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored
> for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications
>
> ***********************************************************************************************
>
> Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not
> necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> ***********************************************************************************************
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Maxability Accessibility for all
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 1:12AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend using
ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem with negative
value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to see different options,
you can have a look at it.
http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
> settings).
> I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
> reader options.
> That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should work
> out for themselves.
> It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies punctuation
> levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could pick it up and
> adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that page.
>
>
>
> On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read aloud?
> >
> > Joshua
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf
> > Of JP Jamous
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do code
> wise. I
> > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors. The
> default
> > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> >
> > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are necessary to
> > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf
> > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting the
> > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there that
> a
> > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus
> > would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this
> quarter
> > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any
> > blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal
> > evidence.
> >
> > Paul McGarvey
> > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing Division |
> > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for National
> > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings | Adeiladau'r
> > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > NP10 8XG
> > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> >
> >
> > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> Statistics
> > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> >
> > ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
> monitored
> > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications
> >
> > ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> >
> > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are
> not
> > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> > > > > archives at
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > > > archives at
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 8:55AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus and
negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman numerals
.

On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend using
> ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem with negative
> value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to see different options,
> you can have a look at it.
> http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
> > settings).
> > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
> > reader options.
> > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should work
> > out for themselves.
> > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies punctuation
> > levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could pick it up and
> > adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that page.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read
> aloud?
> > >
> > > Joshua
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of JP Jamous
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do code
> > wise. I
> > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors. The
> > default
> > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > >
> > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are necessary
> to
> > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from visiting
> the
> > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers there
> that
> > a
> > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and thus
> > > would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports for this
> > quarter
> > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for any
> > > blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this anecdotal
> > > evidence.
> > >
> > > Paul McGarvey
> > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> Division |
> > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for
> National
> > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> Adeiladau'r
> > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > NP10 8XG
> > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > >
> > >
> > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> > Statistics
> > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > >
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
> > monitored
> > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications
> > >
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > >
> > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message
> are
> > not
> > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > archives at
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > archives at
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 9:04AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

ASCII?
Why not Unicode?

In 2000, Unicode was adopted worldwide by most computer technologies as the default character encoding, and is in WCAG and PDF/UA. Using Unicode guarantees that your content will convert seamlessly into any other technology, from Word to HTML to PDF to MathML to EPUB to whatever. ASCII is pretty much deprecated, as well as the old Apple "special" character encoding Steve Jobs developed in the 1980s.

The beauty of Unicode is that is maps each character of the world's major languages, punctuation, dingbats, math/science symbols, and anything else you can dream up to its unique character codepoint (4 to 5 digit code number).

The key on your keyboard to the right of the Zero key is a hyphen, not a dash or minus sign. Given that, it has a great likelihood of being misinterpreted by any and all technologies, including various screen readers.

So why ask software to guess what your intent is? Minus or hyphen?
Why not instead use the real Unicode character for a minus?

Hyphen (-) = Unicode 002D
Minus (−) = Unicode 2212
En Dash (–) = Unicode 2013
Em Dash (—) = Unicode 2014

If you're writing in MS Word, it's easy to insert Unicode characters. Type the 4-digit Unicode code followed by Alt + X keys. Alt-x will cause the software to look back and swap out the numbers for the actual Unicode character.

You can find the Unicode characters through Word's insert symbol utility, Windows character utility, InDesign's Glyph panel, and online at www.Unicode.org

--Bevi Chagnon

From: Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 9:07AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some accessible templates for the agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading structure.

Mike Moore
Accessibility Coordinator
Texas Health and Human Services Commission
Civil Rights Office
(512) 438-3431 (Office)

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman numerals .

On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend using
> ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem with
> negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to see
> different options, you can have a look at it.
> http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
> > settings).
> > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
> > reader options.
> > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > work out for themselves.
> > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could
> > pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that page.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read
> aloud?
> > >
> > > Joshua
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > On
> > Behalf
> > > Of JP Jamous
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > code
> > wise. I
> > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > The
> > default
> > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > >
> > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > necessary
> to
> > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > On
> > Behalf
> > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > visiting
> the
> > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > there
> that
> > a
> > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and
> > > thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports
> > > for this
> > quarter
> > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for
> > > any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this
> > > anecdotal evidence.
> > >
> > > Paul McGarvey
> > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> Division |
> > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for
> National
> > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> Adeiladau'r
> > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > NP10 8XG
> > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > >
> > >
> > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> > Statistics
> > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > >
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
> > monitored
> > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > communications
> > >
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > >
> > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > message
> are
> > not
> > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > ************************************************************
> > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > archives at
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > archives at
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 9:33AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Mike, yes your authors can insert true Unicode Roman numerals into the chapter headings. Instead of typing XI (English language letters on their keyboard, type 216A and then Alt+X keys. That will insert the true Roman numeral for eleven.

And this Microsoft keyboard shortcut works in MS Outlook and MS PowerPoint, too.

If you use Unicode for Roman numerals, it will be correct, per se. Unicode 2160 through 217F. Here is the set of Unicode Roman Numerals for those reading this with screen readers. Not sure if generic email will recognize them, and most of our screen readers have not accommodated enough of the Unicode character set into their software. In other words, it's dicey whether a particular screen reader will recognize them correctly, here in this email or in any other media.

Capitals: Ⅰ Ⅱ Ⅲ Ⅳ Ⅴ Ⅵ Ⅶ Ⅷ Ⅸ Ⅹ Ⅺ Ⅻ Ⅼ Ⅽ Ⅾ Ⅿ
Lower Case:ⅰ ⅱ ⅲ ⅳ ⅴ ⅵ ⅶ ⅷ ⅸ ⅹ ⅺ ⅻ ⅼ ⅽ ⅾ ⅿ ⅿ

If I was a screen reader user, I would be lobbying the software manufacturers to get the basic Unicode characters into their software and that includes STEM symbols, dingbats/ornaments used for bullets, roman numerals, circled/decorative numbers, and of course extended punctuation.

A few years ago, a business partner was having trouble with her personal bank account. She was legally blind and used a screen reader to access her bank statements online. She asked me to help and the problem was very clear to me: she had a negative amount in her bank account, but she couldn't see that...all she heard was $100, not minus $100. Of course, the bank's website used a hyphen, not a Unicode minus sign.

Unfortunately, she became ill and passed away before she could finish filing an ADA complaint with DOJ, but at least the bank refunded the overdraft charges.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —

From: Preast, Vanessa
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 9:39AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

When using the Symbol tool in Word (Alt, N, U), is that using the Unicode, which will be read correctly by the screenreader?

Thanks,
Vanessa

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:34 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Mike, yes your authors can insert true Unicode Roman numerals into the chapter headings. Instead of typing XI (English language letters on their keyboard, type 216A and then Alt+X keys. That will insert the true Roman numeral for eleven.

And this Microsoft keyboard shortcut works in MS Outlook and MS PowerPoint, too.

If you use Unicode for Roman numerals, it will be correct, per se. Unicode 2160 through 217F. Here is the set of Unicode Roman Numerals for those reading this with screen readers. Not sure if generic email will recognize them, and most of our screen readers have not accommodated enough of the Unicode character set into their software. In other words, it's dicey whether a particular screen reader will recognize them correctly, here in this email or in any other media.

Capitals: Ⅰ Ⅱ Ⅲ Ⅳ Ⅴ Ⅵ Ⅶ Ⅷ Ⅸ Ⅹ Ⅺ Ⅻ Ⅼ Ⅽ Ⅾ Ⅿ Lower Case:ⅰ ⅱ ⅲ ⅳ ⅴ ⅵ ⅶ ⅷ ⅸ ⅹ ⅺ ⅻ ⅼ ⅽ ⅾ ⅿ ⅿ

If I was a screen reader user, I would be lobbying the software manufacturers to get the basic Unicode characters into their software and that includes STEM symbols, dingbats/ornaments used for bullets, roman numerals, circled/decorative numbers, and of course extended punctuation.

A few years ago, a business partner was having trouble with her personal bank account. She was legally blind and used a screen reader to access her bank statements online. She asked me to help and the problem was very clear to me: she had a negative amount in her bank account, but she couldn't see that...all she heard was $100, not minus $100. Of course, the bank's website used a hyphen, not a Unicode minus sign.

Unfortunately, she became ill and passed away before she could finish filing an ADA complaint with DOJ, but at least the bank refunded the overdraft charges.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 10:31AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Vanessa, we have not been able to confirm anything with Microsoft's engineers. Been trying for a few years.

The Word Insert Symbol utility could be accessing Unicode characters, and then again because that's an old tool (created in the software in the 1990s), it could still be defaulting to the original ASCII characters in use back then. Or some could be using ASCII, others Unicode. We just don't know and aren't given character encoding details in Word's "symbol" dialogue box.

Only Microsoft can confirm this.

If anyone on this list is on Microsoft's beta testing team, I hope you'll be able to bring this up with the engineering team and get back to us with their answer.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —

-----Original Message-----
From: Preast, Vanessa [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 11:39 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ; WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

When using the Symbol tool in Word (Alt, N, U), is that using the Unicode, which will be read correctly by the screenreader?

Thanks,
Vanessa

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:34 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Mike, yes your authors can insert true Unicode Roman numerals into the chapter headings. Instead of typing XI (English language letters on their keyboard, type 216A and then Alt+X keys. That will insert the true Roman numeral for eleven.

And this Microsoft keyboard shortcut works in MS Outlook and MS PowerPoint, too.

If you use Unicode for Roman numerals, it will be correct, per se. Unicode 2160 through 217F. Here is the set of Unicode Roman Numerals for those reading this with screen readers. Not sure if generic email will recognize them, and most of our screen readers have not accommodated enough of the Unicode character set into their software. In other words, it's dicey whether a particular screen reader will recognize them correctly, here in this email or in any other media.

Capitals: Ⅰ Ⅱ Ⅲ Ⅳ Ⅴ Ⅵ Ⅶ Ⅷ Ⅸ Ⅹ Ⅺ Ⅻ Ⅼ Ⅽ Ⅾ Ⅿ Lower Case:ⅰ ⅱ ⅲ ⅳ ⅴ ⅵ ⅶ ⅷ ⅸ ⅹ ⅺ ⅻ ⅼ ⅽ ⅾ ⅿ ⅿ

If I was a screen reader user, I would be lobbying the software manufacturers to get the basic Unicode characters into their software and that includes STEM symbols, dingbats/ornaments used for bullets, roman numerals, circled/decorative numbers, and of course extended punctuation.

A few years ago, a business partner was having trouble with her personal bank account. She was legally blind and used a screen reader to access her bank statements online. She asked me to help and the problem was very clear to me: she had a negative amount in her bank account, but she couldn't see that...all she heard was $100, not minus $100. Of course, the bank's website used a hyphen, not a Unicode minus sign.

Unfortunately, she became ill and passed away before she could finish filing an ADA complaint with DOJ, but at least the bank refunded the overdraft charges.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —

From: Jim Allan
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 4:27PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great
4-digit Unicode code followed by Alt + X
- is read as minus
I is read as "roman Numeral one"
tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths

NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus symbol
was read as hyphen.


On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC) <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen reader to
> correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman Numerals - eg IX X
> XI? If so please share. We are working on some accessible templates for the
> agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> structure.
>
> Mike Moore
> Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas Health and Human Services Commission
> Civil Rights Office
> (512) 438-3431 (Office)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus and
> negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman numerals .
>
> On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend using
> > ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem with
> > negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to see
> > different options, you can have a look at it.
> > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
> > > settings).
> > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
> > > reader options.
> > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > work out for themselves.
> > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could
> > > pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that
> page.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read
> > aloud?
> > > >
> > > > Joshua
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > >
> > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > code
> > > wise. I
> > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > The
> > > default
> > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > >
> > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > necessary
> > to
> > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > >
> > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > visiting
> > the
> > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > there
> > that
> > > a
> > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and
> > > > thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports
> > > > for this
> > > quarter
> > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for
> > > > any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this
> > > > anecdotal evidence.
> > > >
> > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > Division |
> > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for
> > National
> > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > Adeiladau'r
> > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> > > Statistics
> > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > ***********************************
> > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
> > > monitored
> > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > communications
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > ***********************************
> > > >
> > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > message
> > are
> > > not
> > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

From: Maxability Accessibility for all
Date: Wed, Dec 07 2016 9:13PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great
> 4-digit Unicode code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus symbol
> was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC) <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen reader to
> > correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman Numerals - eg IX X
> > XI? If so please share. We are working on some accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission
> > Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus and
> > negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend using
> > > ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem with
> > > negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to see
> > > different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader punctuation
> > > > settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address screen
> > > > reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers could
> > > > pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off" and
> > > > > thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like "exports
> > > > > for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking for
> > > > > any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build on this
> > > > > anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > >

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 1:38AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Unicode characters are written as "&#8212" (without the quotes, of course). This sample is for an Em Dash. So put an ampersand and hash tag in front of the 4-digit code point.

Sad to hear about NVDA's failure on this. Has anyone contacted them? They should have addressed at least the basic Unicode characters by this time.

--Bevi Chagnon

— — —
Bevi Chagnon | www.PubCom.com
Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
for publishing & communication
| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
— — —

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 11:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 2:54AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >

From: McGarvey, Paul
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 3:10AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the composition of the text itself?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy
on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the
Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 6:12AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

For the Unicode, you just have to reference them and add them as suggested Paul. Otherwise, MSWord or other authoring tools won't know what you are referring to if you type on your keyboard only.

As far as converting them to something HTML can understand, saving the MSWord document as a web page should do the trick. If not, let me know. W3 should have a list of HTML code that represent the Unicode. I know I ran into it a few months back with the question mark, less than and greater than.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 4:10 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the composition of the text itself?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Preast, Vanessa
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 8:04AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Question:
When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash and the second is a Han character.
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>&#x8212;</p>

However, to make the ampersand work, I must use the "x":
<p>ASCII: &amp;</p>
<p>UNICODE: &#x0026;</p>

-----
Suggestion:
Paul, not sure if it helps, but I thought I'd share my approach. For small amounts of code, I might use free visual editors such as W3schools "try it yourself" tool (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/tryit.asp?filename=tryutf_quote), CodePen (http://codepen.io/TeachLearn/pen/WoyXjx), or an online HTML editor (https://html-online.com/editor/) or the and then I copy and paste the information into my application.

The w3schools has a nice list with symbols (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/ref_utf_basic_latin.asp) and the "try it" right next to it, so it is easy to copy and paste. There are also the Unicode charts at http://unicode.org/charts/.

Best,
Vanessa

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:10 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the composition of the text itself?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 8:18AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

> When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash and the second is a Han character.

x indicates a hexadecimal number -- without it indicates decimal. So 8212 would have different values in each system.

Jonathan

Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 (Office)

Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Don't miss Trends in Accessibility & Electronic Documents on Wed 12/7!

The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:04 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Question:
When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash and the second is a Han character.
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>&#x8212;</p>

However, to make the ampersand work, I must use the "x":
<p>ASCII: &amp;</p>
<p>UNICODE: &#x0026;</p>

-----
Suggestion:
Paul, not sure if it helps, but I thought I'd share my approach. For small amounts of code, I might use free visual editors such as W3schools "try it yourself" tool (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/tryit.asp?filename=tryutf_quote), CodePen (http://codepen.io/TeachLearn/pen/WoyXjx), or an online HTML editor (https://html-online.com/editor/) or the and then I copy and paste the information into my application.

The w3schools has a nice list with symbols (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/ref_utf_basic_latin.asp) and the "try it" right next to it, so it is easy to copy and paste. There are also the Unicode charts at http://unicode.org/charts/.

Best,
Vanessa

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:10 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the composition of the text itself?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Preast, Vanessa
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 8:40AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

I think I just found the answer to my question on a Penn State site (http://archive.tlt.psu.edu/suggestions/international/web/tips/unicodefourdigit.html). I'll post it here in case it is helpful to others are new to Unicode like me, or in case experienced folks want to correct what I've posted.

It sounds like there are decimal and hexadecimal codes. The hex codes use the format &#x<hex-number>; and decimal codes use the format &#<dec-number>; when coding HTML

The Em Dash uses the decimal of 8212 but the hex of 2014 (http://unicodelookup.com/#em dash/1). That's why the same number was resulting in different results in the HTML code. I was identifying the first as "decimal" and the second as "hexadecimal" by adding the x.

What is my Word 2016 using? It appears to be the Unicode Hexadecimal:
When I type 8212 into Word and then press Alt-X, I get the Han symbol
When I type 2014 into Word and press Alt-X I get the em dash

Best,
Vanessa


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 9:04 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Question:
When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash and the second is a Han character.
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>&#x8212;</p>

However, to make the ampersand work, I must use the "x":
<p>ASCII: &amp;</p>
<p>UNICODE: &#x0026;</p>

-----
Suggestion:
Paul, not sure if it helps, but I thought I'd share my approach. For small amounts of code, I might use free visual editors such as W3schools "try it yourself" tool (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/tryit.asp?filename=tryutf_quote), CodePen (http://codepen.io/TeachLearn/pen/WoyXjx), or an online HTML editor (https://html-online.com/editor/) or the and then I copy and paste the information into my application.

The w3schools has a nice list with symbols (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/ref_utf_basic_latin.asp) and the "try it" right next to it, so it is easy to copy and paste. There are also the Unicode charts at http://unicode.org/charts/.

Best,
Vanessa

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:10 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the composition of the text itself?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Save the MSWord as an HTML file.

It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.

How can we use these with HTML?

Thanks & Regards
Rakesh

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> code followed by Alt + X
> - is read as minus
> I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
>
> NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> symbol was read as hyphen.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > accessible templates for
> the
> > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > structure.
> >
> > Mike Moore
> > Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> numerals .
> >
> > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > screen reader options.
> > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > accordingly for that
> > page.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > read
> > > aloud?
> > > > >
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > code
> > > > wise. I
> > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > The
> > > > default
> > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > necessary
> > > to
> > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > visiting
> > > the
> > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > there
> > > that
> > > > a
> > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > "exports for this
> > > > quarter
> > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > Division |
> > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > for
> > > National
> > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > National
> > > > Statistics
> > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > routinely
> > > > monitored
> > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > communications
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > >
> > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > message
> > > are
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > archives at
> > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk

***********************************************************************************************
Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications

***********************************************************************************************

Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
***********************************************************************************************

From: Jim Allan
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 8:50AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

here is a site of many if not all hex codes to test with screen readers in
browsers
http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/supplemental_arrows_b.html
check the menu button to see a list of various categories of fonts and
symbols.
JAWS read most of them. NVDA- nada.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Preast, Vanessa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I think I just found the answer to my question on a Penn State site (
> http://archive.tlt.psu.edu/suggestions/international/web/
> tips/unicodefourdigit.html). I'll post it here in case it is helpful to
> others are new to Unicode like me, or in case experienced folks want to
> correct what I've posted.
>
> It sounds like there are decimal and hexadecimal codes. The hex codes use
> the format &#x<hex-number>; and decimal codes use the format
> &#<dec-number>; when coding HTML
>
> The Em Dash uses the decimal of 8212 but the hex of 2014 (
> http://unicodelookup.com/#em dash/1). That's why the same number was
> resulting in different results in the HTML code. I was identifying the
> first as "decimal" and the second as "hexadecimal" by adding the x.
>
> What is my Word 2016 using? It appears to be the Unicode Hexadecimal:
> When I type 8212 into Word and then press Alt-X, I get the Han symbol
> When I type 2014 into Word and press Alt-X I get the em dash
>
> Best,
> Vanessa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 9:04 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Question:
> When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash
> and the second is a Han character.
> <p>&#8212;</p>
> <p>&#x8212;</p>
>
> However, to make the ampersand work, I must use the "x":
> <p>ASCII: &amp;</p>
> <p>UNICODE: &#x0026;</p>
>
> -----
> Suggestion:
> Paul, not sure if it helps, but I thought I'd share my approach. For small
> amounts of code, I might use free visual editors such as W3schools "try it
> yourself" tool (http://www.w3schools.com/charsets/tryit.asp?filename>; tryutf_quote), CodePen (http://codepen.io/TeachLearn/pen/WoyXjx), or an
> online HTML editor (https://html-online.com/editor/) or the and then I
> copy and paste the information into my application.
>
> The w3schools has a nice list with symbols (http://www.w3schools.com/
> charsets/ref_utf_basic_latin.asp) and the "try it" right next to it, so
> it is easy to copy and paste. There are also the Unicode charts at
> http://unicode.org/charts/.
>
> Best,
> Vanessa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a
> content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content
> perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the
> composition of the text itself?
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:webaim-forum-bounces@
> list.webaim.org]
> Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Save the MSWord as an HTML file.
>
> It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own
> equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.
>
> How can we use these with HTML?
>
> Thanks & Regards
> Rakesh
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> > code followed by Alt + X
> > - is read as minus
> > I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> > tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
> >
> > NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> > symbol was read as hyphen.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > > accessible templates for
> > the
> > > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > > structure.
> > >
> > > Mike Moore
> > > Accessibility Coordinator
> > > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> > numerals .
> > >
> > > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > > screen reader options.
> > > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > > accordingly for that
> > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > > read
> > > > aloud?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joshua
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > > code
> > > > > wise. I
> > > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > default
> > > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > to
> > > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > > visiting
> > > > the
> > > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > > there
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > > "exports for this
> > > > > quarter
> > > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > > Division |
> > > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > > for
> > > > National
> > > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > > National
> > > > > Statistics
> > > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > > routinely
> > > > > monitored
> > > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > > communications
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > > message
> > > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > > archives at
> > > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > > archives at
> > > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> >
> For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> Statistics at http://www.ons.gov.uk
>
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored
> for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications
>
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
>
> Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are
> not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

From: steve.noble@louisville.edu
Date: Thu, Dec 08 2016 9:30AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Well, I think the more limited Unicode support in NVDA has been an identified issue. See for instance:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/3805
There's little question that JAWS, as a premium product, does a better job.

But if these symbols are really being used to represent mathematical constructs, I would suggest embedding them in MathML and using MathJax to render the content. This would expand the accessibility options at the user end, as one will get then get much better Unicode character support in NVDA when MathPlayer is running on the machine, and should also be picked up by ChromeVox and perhaps other speech AT.

--Steve Noble
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble



From: WebAIM-Forum [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] on behalf of Jim Allan [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -

here is a site of many if not all hex codes to test with screen readers in
browsers
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.alanwood.net_unicode_supplemental-5Farrows-5Fb.html&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=2ZGMkaC5Orbd5ONIN1mrA9takXcN-ED0YoPfzzgZiMI&echeck the menu button to see a list of various categories of fonts and
symbols.
JAWS read most of them. NVDA- nada.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Preast, Vanessa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I think I just found the answer to my question on a Penn State site (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.tlt.psu.edu_suggestions_international_web_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=ewyp1IEE916EwFtytA4EVF5U26QdJnFXJgsaJ4oaYjU&e> tips/unicodefourdigit.html). I'll post it here in case it is helpful to
> others are new to Unicode like me, or in case experienced folks want to
> correct what I've posted.
>
> It sounds like there are decimal and hexadecimal codes. The hex codes use
> the format &#x<hex-number>; and decimal codes use the format
> &#<dec-number>; when coding HTML
>
> The Em Dash uses the decimal of 8212 but the hex of 2014 (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__unicodelookup.com_-23em&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&sQTu8SAvtCsNhfGg3agNPvWnSBuw6PURjNZKWp3NStk&e= dash/1). That's why the same number was
> resulting in different results in the HTML code. I was identifying the
> first as "decimal" and the second as "hexadecimal" by adding the x.
>
> What is my Word 2016 using? It appears to be the Unicode Hexadecimal:
> When I type 8212 into Word and then press Alt-X, I get the Han symbol
> When I type 2014 into Word and press Alt-X I get the em dash
>
> Best,
> Vanessa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 9:04 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Question:
> When the "x" is needed and when not? The first item below is the Em Dash
> and the second is a Han character.
> <p>&#8212;</p>
> <p>&#x8212;</p>
>
> However, to make the ampersand work, I must use the "x":
> <p>ASCII: &amp;</p>
> <p>UNICODE: &#x0026;</p>
>
> -----
> Suggestion:
> Paul, not sure if it helps, but I thought I'd share my approach. For small
> amounts of code, I might use free visual editors such as W3schools "try it
> yourself" tool (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3schools.com_charsets_tryit.asp-3Ffilename-3D&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=HL0mp4m1kEXCDtZUrzz9TpNRUQlu6I5x7Qi--9yb0Fg&e> tryutf_quote), CodePen (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__codepen.io_TeachLearn_pen_WoyXjx&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=ODkxU6rgWmiq1-0E3yHmX3Tu2FN8Pjgbrvnn40CGQos&e= ), or an
> online HTML editor (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__html-2Donline.com_editor_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&sé5m3H2o_JexN1qW2HI9oRj1zKw4GkJEX3b58TwRbS0&e= ) or the and then I
> copy and paste the information into my application.
>
> The w3schools has a nice list with symbols (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.w3schools.com_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=Go0m87BpHbr6rNrtQ-EFjp7wX8PlY6YpvgURqzqEcwE&e> charsets/ref_utf_basic_latin.asp) and the "try it" right next to it, so
> it is easy to copy and paste. There are also the Unicode charts at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__unicode.org_charts_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&sÍPA6ifhIcTTsj7pweuib1o0hp0YtjWwVYFT2YNjTko&e= .
>
> Best,
> Vanessa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of McGarvey, Paul
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:10 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for all your advice. I should add I'm not a developer and just a
> content person, so was wondering what was best practice from a content
> perspective, ie, a solution that wouldn't require coding but the
> composition of the text itself?
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:webaim-forum-bounces@
> list.webaim.org]
> Sent: 08 December 2016 09:55
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Save the MSWord as an HTML file.
>
> It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own
> equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of Maxability Accessibility for all
> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.
>
> How can we use these with HTML?
>
> Thanks & Regards
> Rakesh
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> > code followed by Alt + X
> > - is read as minus
> > I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> > tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
> >
> > NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> > symbol was read as hyphen.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > > accessible templates for
> > the
> > > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > > structure.
> > >
> > > Mike Moore
> > > Accessibility Coordinator
> > > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> > numerals .
> > >
> > > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.maxability.co.in_demos_Negetive-2Dvalue.html&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=p9XVLGLZj1H0NL12unk3M45UvNfZxj8tistw_4HJw10&e> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > > screen reader options.
> > > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > > accordingly for that
> > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > > read
> > > > aloud?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joshua
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > > code
> > > > > wise. I
> > > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > default
> > > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > to
> > > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > > visiting
> > > > the
> > > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > > there
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > > "exports for this
> > > > > quarter
> > > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > > Division |
> > > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > > for
> > > > National
> > > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > > National
> > > > > Statistics
> > > > > > at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ons.gov.uk&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=l_njZMmd9lQYMxq1KkUFyBweusXf5JQU8kbXcGzvpMQ&e> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > > routinely
> > > > > monitored
> > > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > > communications
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > > message
> > > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at
> > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tsbvi.edu_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=igtiHyJqL4s_l9Pe2NsaQZlZAdoif4hjzsHx3huMIog&e> > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > > > archives at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > >
> > > at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> >
> > > at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> >
> > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.symanteccloud.com&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=ZqOoQ_-IMHy0SEFz-8BOqklDhLsnpizHVsErIeTqLUE&e> >
> For the latest data on the economy and society, consult National
> Statistics at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ons.gov.uk&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=l_njZMmd9lQYMxq1KkUFyBweusXf5JQU8kbXcGzvpMQ&e>
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are routinely monitored
> for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic communications
>
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
>
> Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this message are
> not necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> ************************************************************
> ***********************************
> > > at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > > at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discussion_archives&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=iwo5OgNLiNMQMl-EEXR3S7XEc6to6eztNUaWyiqO7X8&e> > > >



--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tsbvi.edu_&d=AwIGaQ&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=FUvBBKCUdf8SzmvElfdRUsc2kHG94mCAjAWKlSosAxo&s=igtiHyJqL4s_l9Pe2NsaQZlZAdoif4hjzsHx3huMIog&e"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Fri, Dec 09 2016 2:29PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Does the Unicode for Roman numerals work when converting Word to PDF?

Joseph


> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of JP Jamous
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:55 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Save the MSWord as an HTML file.
>
> It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their own
> equivalent in HTML using &SomeLetters;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Maxability Accessibility for all
> Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:14 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Was testing with NVDA and no luck. JAWS is reading perfect.
>
> How can we use these with HTML?
>
> Thanks & Regards
> Rakesh
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Jim Allan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > just tested with word 2016 and Jaws 18 works great 4-digit Unicode
> > code followed by Alt + X
> > - is read as minus
> > I is read as "roman Numeral one"
> > tried 4/5 (unicode 2158) is read as four fifths
> >
> > NVDA read none of the roman numerals, nor the fraction. , the minus
> > symbol was read as hyphen.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility) (HHSC)
> > < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > > Does that mean that there is a way in MS Word to cause a screen
> > > reader to correctly identify chapter headings that include Roman
> > > Numerals - eg IX X XI? If so please share. We are working on some
> > > accessible templates for
> > the
> > > agency and have been asked to include Roman numerals for the heading
> > > structure.
> > >
> > > Mike Moore
> > > Accessibility Coordinator
> > > Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> > > (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:56 AM
> > > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > I believe there are actually different unicode identifiers for minus
> > > and negate. There are certainly specific UNICODE encodings for roman
> > numerals .
> > >
> > > On 7 December 2016 at 03:12, Maxability Accessibility for all <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > > > While I second to set SR punctuation to all, I used to recommend
> > > > using ascii values instead of symbols themselves. I had a problem
> > > > with negative value read as hyphen and I have made a simple POC to
> > > > see different options, you can have a look at it.
> > > > http://www.maxability.co.in/demos/Negetive-value.html
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 1:07 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You could insert an off-screen sentence at the top of an article
> > > > > saying (this text uses symols, adjust your screen reader
> > > > > punctuation settings).
> > > > > I am not a fan of content authors going overboard to address
> > > > > screen reader options.
> > > > > That is something the screen reader vendors and the users should
> > > > > work out for themselves.
> > > > > It is possible to propose an ARIA attribute that specifies
> > > > > punctuation levels. If author uses that, the screen readers
> > > > > could pick it up and adjust their punctuation setting
> > > > > accordingly for that
> > > page.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12/6/16, Joshua Hori < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > > > > Code wise, couldn't you use MathJax to ensure the symbols are
> > > > > > read
> > > > aloud?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joshua
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of JP Jamous
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:47 AM
> > > > > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they turn punctuation off, then there is nothing you can do
> > > > > > code
> > > > > wise. I
> > > > > > like to keep it at Some punctuation for my PC and JAWS cursors.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > default
> > > > > > is Most punctuations, but that can be too annoying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I am reading something where I know that punctuations are
> > > > > > necessary
> > > > to
> > > > > > have read, I either change the setting or read by char.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: WebAIM-Forum
> > > > > > [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of McGarvey, Paul
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:01 AM
> > > > > > To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > > Subject: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is anyone able to offer any thoughts on the accessibility of
> > > > > > symbols/characters such as &, *, +, - and so on? I know from
> > > > > > visiting
> > > > the
> > > > > > Digital Accessibility Centre in Neath and speaking to testers
> > > > > > there
> > > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > > lot of people who use screenreaders "turn the punctuation off"
> > > > > > and thus would miss a crucial character in a sentence like
> > > > > > "exports for this
> > > > > quarter
> > > > > > were -0.2". However, want to know more about this for looking
> > > > > > for any blogs/articles/guidance anyone could provide to build
> > > > > > on this anecdotal evidence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul McGarvey
> > > > > > Senior Content Editor/Golygydd Cynnwys Uwch Digital Publishing
> > > > Division |
> > > > > > Is-adran Cyhoeddi Digidol Room 1.101 | Ystafell 1.101 Office
> > > > > > for
> > > > National
> > > > > > Statistics | Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol Government Buildings |
> > > > Adeiladau'r
> > > > > > Llywodraeth Cardiff Road | Heol Caerdydd Newport | Casnewydd
> > > > > > NP10 8XG
> > > > > > Telephone | Ffôn: 01633 45 6019
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the latest data on the economy and society, consult
> > > > > > National
> > > > > Statistics
> > > > > > at http://www.ons.gov.uk
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > Please Note: Incoming and outgoing email messages are
> > > > > > routinely
> > > > > monitored
> > > > > > for compliance with our policy on the use of electronic
> > > > > > communications
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Legal Disclaimer: Any views expressed by the sender of this
> > > > > > message
> > > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > necessarily those of the Office for National Statistics
> > > > > >
> ************************************************************
> > > > > ***********************************
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > > archives at
> > > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List
> > > > > archives at
> > > > > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
> > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
> > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9264 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Dec 09 2016 2:36PM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes.

Because Unicode was adopted worldwide by all computer technology
manufacturers, it travels from program to program, technology to technology,
platform to platform.



It's universal, hence the uni in unicode.



So yes, use Unicode in MS Word and it passes through to the PDF.



And also into HTML, Adobe InDesign, content management systems, EPUB,
whatever.



--Bevi Chagnon



- - -

Bevi Chagnon | <http://www.pubcom.com/>; www.PubCom.com

Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers

for publishing & communication

| Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |

- - -







> On 12/9/2016 4:29:33 PM, Joseph Sherman ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ) wrote:
> > Does the Unicode for Roman numerals work when converting Word to PDF?
>
> Joseph
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
Behalf
> > Of JP Jamous
> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:55 AM
> > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> >
> > Save the MSWord as an HTML file.
> >
> > It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have their
own
> > equivalent in HTML using

From: Joseph Sherman
Date: Mon, Dec 12 2016 10:22AM
Subject: Re: Accessibility of + and -
← Previous message | No next message

Excellent, thanks. Is there an easy way to use Unicode for Roman Numerals in Word/PDF when making lists/outlines?

Joseph

> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of Chagnon | PubCom
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2016 4:37 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
>
> Yes.
>
> Because Unicode was adopted worldwide by all computer technology manufacturers,
> it travels from program to program, technology to technology, platform to platform.
>
>
>
> It's universal, hence the uni in unicode.
>
>
>
> So yes, use Unicode in MS Word and it passes through to the PDF.
>
>
>
> And also into HTML, Adobe InDesign, content management systems, EPUB,
> whatever.
>
>
>
> --Bevi Chagnon
>
>
>
> - - -
>
> Bevi Chagnon | <http://www.pubcom.com/>; www.PubCom.com
>
> Technologists, Consultants, Trainers, Designers, and Developers
>
> for publishing & communication
>
> | Acrobat PDF | Print | EPUBS | Sec. 508 Accessibility |
>
> - - -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/9/2016 4:29:33 PM, Joseph Sherman ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
> wrote:
> > > Does the Unicode for Roman numerals work when converting Word to PDF?
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf
> > > Of JP Jamous
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 4:55 AM
> > > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of + and -
> > >
> > > Save the MSWord as an HTML file.
> > >
> > > It should be able to convert them. I know the Unicode chars have
> > > their
> own
> > > equivalent in HTML using
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>