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Thread: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: L Snider
Date: Sat, Feb 11 2017 9:35PM
Subject: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
No previous message | Next message →
Hi All,
This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5, they
note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all seem to be
saying the same thing.
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-loc.html
The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying that
you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is for small
sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three, can
anyone fill me in?
Cheers
Lisa
From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 2:47AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Lisa,
Admittedly, the difference is slight.
* G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small site.
* G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page. Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site.
* G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages work without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the section page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a general search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on the kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my experience), there is probably little harm in not touching these techniques and focusing on the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
Detlev
--
Detlev Fischer
testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
> Hi All,
>
> This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5, they
> note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all seem to be
> saying the same thing.
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-loc.html
>
> The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying that
> you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is for small
> sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
>
> I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three, can
> anyone fill me in?
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
> > > > >
From: L Snider
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 7:11AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Detlev,
Thanks, so it looks like I was on the right track. I have seen sites that
only use the logo as the home page link, so there isn't a text link. From
the way I read G85 that would fail? I advise people to do both, but I see
more sites with just logos these days.
Thanks again,
Cheers
Lisa
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> Hi Lisa,
> Admittedly, the difference is slight.
> * G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small
> site.
> * G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and
> that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require
> each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page.
> Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site.
> * G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages work
> without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive
> listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another
> technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the section
> page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a general
> search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
>
> I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are
> informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on
> the kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my
> experience), there is probably little harm in not touching these techniques
> and focusing on the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
>
> Detlev
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
> L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5, they
> > note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all seem to be
> > saying the same thing.
> >
> > https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-
> loc.html
> >
> > The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying that
> > you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is for small
> > sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
> >
> > I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three, can
> > anyone fill me in?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > >
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 7:44AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | Next message →
Detlev wrote:
"* G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page. Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site."
How could this be possible with a government website that contains millions of pages? That interpretation would create millions of links on just the homepage itself.
Question: How do government web master handle this?
--Bevi Chagnon
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Detlev Fischer
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:47 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
Hi Lisa,
Admittedly, the difference is slight.
* G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small site.
* G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page. Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site.
* G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages work without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the section page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a general search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on the kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my experience), there is probably little harm in not touching these techniques and focusing on the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
Detlev
--
Detlev Fischer
testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
> Hi All,
>
> This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5,
> they note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all
> seem to be saying the same thing.
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-
> loc.html
>
> The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying
> that you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is
> for small sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
>
> I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three,
> can anyone fill me in?
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 7:46AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | Next message →
L Snider schrieb am 13.02.2017 15:11:
> Hi Detlev,
>
> Thanks, so it looks like I was on the right track. I have seen sites that
> only use the logo as the home page link, so there isn't a text link. From
> the way I read G85 that would fail?
If the logo has a meaningful alt attriute (or another way of providing an accessible name to non-visual users) I would assume that the test in G185 would pass and the page (when it belongs to a small site) would thus pass SC 2.4.5. Using the logo as home page link is so common that no visible text link would be required in this case.
I advise people to do both, but I see
> more sites with just logos these days.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lisa,
>> Admittedly, the difference is slight.
>> * G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small
>> site.
>> * G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and
>> that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require
>> each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page.
>> Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site.
>> * G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages work
>> without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive
>> listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another
>> technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the section
>> page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a general
>> search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
>>
>> I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are
>> informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on
>> the kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my
>> experience), there is probably little harm in not touching these techniques
>> and focusing on the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
>>
>> Detlev
>> --
>> Detlev Fischer
>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>>
>> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>>
>> http://www.testkreis.de
>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>>
>> L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5, they
>> > note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all seem to be
>> > saying the same thing.
>> >
>> > https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-
>> loc.html
>> >
>> > The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying that
>> > you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is for small
>> > sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
>> >
>> > I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three, can
>> > anyone fill me in?
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Lisa
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 7:49AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | Next message →
> Detlev wrote:
> "* G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and that
> each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require each page
> to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page. Interestingly
> there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site."
G185 is a technique that explicitly focuses on small sites with just a few pages - it covers an exception where linking back to home from all pages would be sufficient to meet SC 2.4.5 without a second means of navigation like search or site map. At least this is my understanding. So this technique is clearly not applicable to a site with millions of pages.
Detlev
>
> How could this be possible with a government website that contains millions of
> pages? That interpretation would create millions of links on just the homepage
> itself.
>
> Question: How do government web master handle this?
>
> --Bevi Chagnon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
> Detlev Fischer
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 4:47 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
>
> Hi Lisa,
> Admittedly, the difference is slight.
> * G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small site.
> * G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and that
> each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not require each page
> to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home page. Interestingly
> there is no upper limit given for what counts as small site.
> * G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages work
> without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive
> listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another
> technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the section
> page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a general
> search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
>
> I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are
> informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on the
> kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my experience),
> there is probably little harm in not touching these techniques and focusing on
> the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
>
> Detlev
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
>
> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
>
> http://www.testkreis.de
> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
>
> L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5,
>> they note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all
>> seem to be saying the same thing.
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/navigation-mechanisms-mult-
>> loc.html
>>
>> The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying
>> that you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is
>> for small sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
>>
>> I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three,
>> can anyone fill me in?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Lisa
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >
From: L Snider
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 7:50AM
Subject: Re: wcag 2.4.5 multiple ways
← Previous message | No next message
Ok so technically there is a link there even with an image logo. For
usability I always recommend a text link, but I was being too picky on that
one!
Thanks again!
Lisa
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Detlev Fischer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> wrote:
> L Snider schrieb am 13.02.2017 15:11:
>
> > Hi Detlev,
> >
> > Thanks, so it looks like I was on the right track. I have seen sites that
> > only use the logo as the home page link, so there isn't a text link. From
> > the way I read G85 that would fail?
>
> If the logo has a meaningful alt attriute (or another way of providing an
> accessible name to non-visual users) I would assume that the test in G185
> would pass and the page (when it belongs to a small site) would thus pass
> SC 2.4.5. Using the logo as home page link is so common that no visible
> text link would be required in this case.
>
>
> I advise people to do both, but I see
> > more sites with just logos these days.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Detlev Fischer <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Lisa,
> >> Admittedly, the difference is slight.
> >> * G126 requires that each page has links to all other pages of a small
> >> site.
> >> * G85 requires that all pages are linked directly from the home page and
> >> that each page has a link back to the home page. So G185 does not
> require
> >> each page to have links to all other pages, just a link to the home
> page.
> >> Interestingly there is no upper limit given for what counts as small
> site.
> >> * G125 seems fairly general and just checks that links to other pages
> work
> >> without saying anything about the hierarchy or requiring a comprehensive
> >> listing. So this technique would presumably work in tandem with another
> >> technique such as search. if you had a sub page linking back to the
> section
> >> page above (but not to the home page) AND a second option, say, a
> general
> >> search function, SC 2.4.5 would be met.
> >>
> >> I admit there is overlap between G126 and G185 but as techniques are
> >> informative only anyway and the small-site techniques are rarely used on
> >> the kind of sites that are audited for WCAG compliance (at least in my
> >> experience), there is probably little harm in not touching these
> techniques
> >> and focusing on the workload related to WCAG 2.1.
> >>
> >> Detlev
> >> --
> >> Detlev Fischer
> >> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
> >> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
> >>
> >> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
> >> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
> >>
> >> http://www.testkreis.de
> >> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
> >>
> >> L Snider schrieb am 12.02.2017 05:35:
> >>
> >> > Hi All,
> >> >
> >> > This has bugged me for a while. Under the techniques for wcag 2.4.5,
> they
> >> > note G125, G126 and G185. When I look at all of them, they all seem
> to be
> >> > saying the same thing.
> >> >
> >> > https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/
> navigation-mechanisms-mult-
> >> loc.html
> >> >
> >> > The only slight difference I can see is that G185 seems to be saying
> that
> >> > you need to have links on the home page, G126 sounds like it is for
> small
> >> > sites and G125 just talks about links going to where they say.
> >> >
> >> > I have searched everywhere and can't find rationale for these three,
> can
> >> > anyone fill me in?
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> >
> >> > Lisa
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
> > > > >