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Thread: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question

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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: L Snider
Date: Thu, Feb 23 2017 4:13PM
Subject: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
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Hi All,

If one uses the templates in PowerPoint, it automatically puts a H1 on the
title page and then H2s on all the other slides. Is there any way to check
this in PowerPoint? I know I can do it in Acrobat...

Also if one has a presentation where you have a title slide with H1 and
then H2s for the rest, except the are four re major section dividers in the
presentation, do you have to then redo the tags to make those section
dividers H2 and then the rest of the slides change to H3? I always assumed
you did, but I wanted to double check.

Is there any way to do this in PowerPoint in terms of changing the Heading
levels? I know how to do it in PDFs...

Thanks!

Lisa

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2017 10:05AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | Next message →

The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can have more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint document. I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1 and H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in Word, you only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body Placeholder). You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."

There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on slides as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think Terrill asked about changing text boxes to headings or Title Placeholders in a post a couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.

If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk about making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them about cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and PowerPoint and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" . on both the default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about the comparison slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an H3 for the subtitles on slides using that layout.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of L Snider
Sent: February 23, 2017 6:14 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question

Hi All,

If one uses the templates in PowerPoint, it automatically puts a H1 on the title page and then H2s on all the other slides. Is there any way to check this in PowerPoint? I know I can do it in Acrobat...

Also if one has a presentation where you have a title slide with H1 and then H2s for the rest, except the are four re major section dividers in the presentation, do you have to then redo the tags to make those section dividers H2 and then the rest of the slides change to H3? I always assumed you did, but I wanted to double check.

Is there any way to do this in PowerPoint in terms of changing the Heading levels? I know how to do it in PDFs...

Thanks!

Lisa

From: L Snider
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2017 10:25AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Karen,

Thanks so much, good to know! I wish PowerPoint was like Word in terms of
styles being open and put into a style bar, it would be a lot easier if
that were consistent between products (she says in a hopeful voice). Very
good point about the comparison slides. Won't be at CSUN, but would love to
know if you get feedback on that request.

I know there are times when there are two H1s in Word docs, but I have
tried to steer clear of any more H1s. I guess my question would be, today
do the majority of screen reader users (I know we can't survey 100% of
people) expect Word docs, PDFs, PowerPoints to be different than web pages
in terms of how many H1s they get? Would they prefer they are similar? I am
asking because for me, I try to only use one H1 on a web page, maybe two if
I have to...but from the feedback I got over the years people who use
screen readers only wanted one or two H1s for web pages...I have lived many
places and I get a lot of different feedback, depending on the local area.

Cheers

Lisa



On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Karlen Communications <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can have
> more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint document.
> I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1 and
> H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in Word, you
> only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body Placeholder).
> You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."
>
> There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on slides
> as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think Terrill asked
> about changing text boxes to headings or Title Placeholders in a post a
> couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.
>
> If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk about
> making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them about
> cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and PowerPoint
> and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" . on both the
> default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about the comparison
> slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an H3 for the
> subtitles on slides using that layout.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2017 10:43AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | Next message →

The number of heading levels doesn’t usually come up in talking about general documents as opposed to web pages. Most of us just want a consistent way to navigate content and figure out what the outline of the content is.

If you look at both iterations of the PDF and the User Experience Survey http://www.karlencommunications.com/PDFsurvey.html

I don't think you'll find feedback on the number of H1, H2 or H3 you might have in a document. Of course this might be because there are other issues that are more of a priority...Maybe I need to develop another survey...

Cheers, Karen.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of L Snider
Sent: February 24, 2017 12:25 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question

Hi Karen,

Thanks so much, good to know! I wish PowerPoint was like Word in terms of styles being open and put into a style bar, it would be a lot easier if that were consistent between products (she says in a hopeful voice). Very good point about the comparison slides. Won't be at CSUN, but would love to know if you get feedback on that request.

I know there are times when there are two H1s in Word docs, but I have tried to steer clear of any more H1s. I guess my question would be, today do the majority of screen reader users (I know we can't survey 100% of
people) expect Word docs, PDFs, PowerPoints to be different than web pages in terms of how many H1s they get? Would they prefer they are similar? I am asking because for me, I try to only use one H1 on a web page, maybe two if I have to...but from the feedback I got over the years people who use screen readers only wanted one or two H1s for web pages...I have lived many places and I get a lot of different feedback, depending on the local area.

Cheers

Lisa



On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Karlen Communications < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can
> have more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint document.
> I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1
> and H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in
> Word, you only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body Placeholder).
> You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."
>
> There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on
> slides as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think
> Terrill asked about changing text boxes to headings or Title
> Placeholders in a post a couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.
>
> If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk
> about making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them
> about cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and
> PowerPoint and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" .
> on both the default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about
> the comparison slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an
> H3 for the subtitles on slides using that layout.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>

From: L Snider
Date: Fri, Feb 24 2017 11:04AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | Next message →

Okay, so it sounds like people expect more variation in non-websites, as
long as things are consistent and logical. I guess I always took a more
website point of view, and met people who wanted that as well.

Yes, I read that survey and it was really helpful. I appreciated you doing
that, as it fills in gaps in knowledge.

I would love a survey of what people view as the worst issues, as they must
encounter horrible docs every day.

I guess I wonder about docs, because most people I have met in my
adventures never think about making them accessible (including most
disability organizations), whereas they may have heard something about
websites. So do people who use screen readers daily have to expect
variation in docs? Should they? I know these are head in the cloud
questions, and I don't need answers, but I sometimes wonder how far we have
come in that end of things since the 90s (and then other times I see the
huge progress).

Cheers

Lisa




On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Karlen Communications <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> The number of heading levels doesn’t usually come up in talking about
> general documents as opposed to web pages. Most of us just want a
> consistent way to navigate content and figure out what the outline of the
> content is.
>
> If you look at both iterations of the PDF and the User Experience Survey
> http://www.karlencommunications.com/PDFsurvey.html
>
> I don't think you'll find feedback on the number of H1, H2 or H3 you might
> have in a document. Of course this might be because there are other issues
> that are more of a priority...Maybe I need to develop another survey...
>
> Cheers, Karen.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of L Snider
> Sent: February 24, 2017 12:25 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
>
> Hi Karen,
>
> Thanks so much, good to know! I wish PowerPoint was like Word in terms of
> styles being open and put into a style bar, it would be a lot easier if
> that were consistent between products (she says in a hopeful voice). Very
> good point about the comparison slides. Won't be at CSUN, but would love to
> know if you get feedback on that request.
>
> I know there are times when there are two H1s in Word docs, but I have
> tried to steer clear of any more H1s. I guess my question would be, today
> do the majority of screen reader users (I know we can't survey 100% of
> people) expect Word docs, PDFs, PowerPoints to be different than web pages
> in terms of how many H1s they get? Would they prefer they are similar? I am
> asking because for me, I try to only use one H1 on a web page, maybe two if
> I have to...but from the feedback I got over the years people who use
> screen readers only wanted one or two H1s for web pages...I have lived many
> places and I get a lot of different feedback, depending on the local area.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Karlen Communications <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can
> > have more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint
> document.
> > I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1
> > and H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in
> > Word, you only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body
> Placeholder).
> > You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."
> >
> > There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on
> > slides as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think
> > Terrill asked about changing text boxes to headings or Title
> > Placeholders in a post a couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.
> >
> > If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk
> > about making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them
> > about cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and
> > PowerPoint and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" .
> > on both the default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about
> > the comparison slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an
> > H3 for the subtitles on slides using that layout.
> >
> > Cheers, Karen
> >
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >

From: Mallory
Date: Sat, Feb 25 2017 6:47AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | Next message →

hey if people are planning on going to Microsoft at CSUN about
PowerPoints, I'd like to be there at the same time as well! Been
fighting a few things and would be good if there's someone everyone at
MS points to and says "oh talk to THAT one."

cheers,
_mallory

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017, at 06:05 PM, Karlen Communications wrote:
> The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can have
> more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint document.
> I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1
> and H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in
> Word, you only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body
> Placeholder). You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."
>
> There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on slides
> as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think Terrill asked
> about changing text boxes to headings or Title Placeholders in a post a
> couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.
>
> If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk
> about making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them about
> cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and
> PowerPoint and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" . on
> both the default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about the
> comparison slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an H3 for
> the subtitles on slides using that layout.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of L Snider
> Sent: February 23, 2017 6:14 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
>
> Hi All,
>
> If one uses the templates in PowerPoint, it automatically puts a H1 on
> the title page and then H2s on all the other slides. Is there any way to
> check this in PowerPoint? I know I can do it in Acrobat...
>
> Also if one has a presentation where you have a title slide with H1 and
> then H2s for the rest, except the are four re major section dividers in
> the presentation, do you have to then redo the tags to make those section
> dividers H2 and then the rest of the slides change to H3? I always
> assumed you did, but I wanted to double check.
>
> Is there any way to do this in PowerPoint in terms of changing the
> Heading levels? I know how to do it in PDFs...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lisa
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > >

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Sat, Feb 25 2017 7:24AM
Subject: Re: PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
← Previous message | No next message

I think Microsoft is holding several sessions and they might have a booth, so I think there are opportunities to be heard. I don't think there is a group. On the other hand, if you want to flag me down at CSUN I'm always interested in how to improve accessibility in Office applications.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Mallory
Sent: February 25, 2017 8:48 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question

hey if people are planning on going to Microsoft at CSUN about PowerPoints, I'd like to be there at the same time as well! Been fighting a few things and would be good if there's someone everyone at MS points to and says "oh talk to THAT one."

cheers,
_mallory

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017, at 06:05 PM, Karlen Communications wrote:
> The section dividers are H1's by default, or they should be. You can
> have more than one H1 in a PDF document and in a Word or PowerPoint document.
> I'm not sure that PowerPoint has the concept of headings other than H1
> and H2. I know if you create the content for a slide presentation in
> Word, you only use Heading 1 (Title Placeholder) and Heading 2 (Body
> Placeholder). You can't use an H3 to make a "nested list."
>
> There is currently no way to identify the default placeholders on
> slides as anything but what they are when tagged as PDF. I think
> Terrill asked about changing text boxes to headings or Title
> Placeholders in a post a couple of weeks ago and you can't do that.
>
> If anyone is going to CSUN, I suggest you talk to the Microsoft folk
> about making this possible in PowerPoint. I'm going to talk to them
> about cleaning up some of the Tags in PDF documents from both Word and
> PowerPoint and will mention the ability to reassign "heading Tags" .
> on both the default placeholders and for Text Boxes. In thinking about
> the comparison slide layout, we really would need the equivalent of an
> H3 for the subtitles on slides using that layout.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf Of L Snider
> Sent: February 23, 2017 6:14 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF and PowerPoint Heading Question
>
> Hi All,
>
> If one uses the templates in PowerPoint, it automatically puts a H1 on
> the title page and then H2s on all the other slides. Is there any way
> to check this in PowerPoint? I know I can do it in Acrobat...
>
> Also if one has a presentation where you have a title slide with H1
> and then H2s for the rest, except the are four re major section
> dividers in the presentation, do you have to then redo the tags to
> make those section dividers H2 and then the rest of the slides change
> to H3? I always assumed you did, but I wanted to double check.
>
> Is there any way to do this in PowerPoint in terms of changing the
> Heading levels? I know how to do it in PDFs...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lisa
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>