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Thread: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup inside data tables
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Detlev Fischer
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 7:13AM
Subject: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup inside data tables
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In the context of the test of a public services portal that lists many services in a data table, the question came up whether it adds or takes away from screen reader accessibility when the names of the services in cells are marked up with headings mark-up (in addition to the column header markup). Would that just create confusion, or afford quicker access for screen reader users calling up a list of headings or using headings shortcuts rather than table navigation?
I have creatred a page that has a simplified example, the first version without heading markup and th esecond with h3 headings for the service names in the first column:
http://www.3needs.org/en/testing/code/headings-in-tables.html
I would be interested both in your views regarding practical screen reader usability and regarding WCAG 2.0 conformance.
Best,
Detlev
--
Detlev Fischer
testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
From: KellyFord
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 8:35AM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup inside datatables
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Strictly from the screen reader usability side, in your example, the headings make the page more usable in my view. In my experience more screen reader users know about heading navigation versus the commands to navigate through a table with different table navigation commands.
I'd also ask though about something you mentioned on the page about the services themselves being available as another cell with text that isn't reported as a link. Your page says about this:
There is actually a link to the respective service in the last column (not reproduced here) which can be triggered
using ENTER (but is not announced as link).
In my experience, many screen reader users won't know they can press enter here without an actionable role being communicated i.e. link.
Kelly
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 8:54AM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup insidedatatables
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From a best practices point of view in accessible document design, we don't put headings in tables. Headings are navigational structures and you don't typically navigate to a single cell in a table. Once we do land on that cell, we have to use the table reading and navigation commands to move around the table anyway.
As someone who, like Kelly, uses a screen reader, I find it annoying to navigate to a single cell in a table. As someone who writes books and provides training on accessible document design, it is a "just say NO!"
I know, you now have two perspectives. It has always been a best practice not to use tables for design layout and adding headings to table cells is part of that concept/poor design.
We have to focus on good design, not compensating for people not knowing how to use their adaptive technology.
Cheers, Karen
From: Jim Allan
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 8:59AM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup inside data tables
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Kelly,
Apart from the heading navigation...
What are your thoughts on the tabindex=0 on the table row. You can tab into
the table. It reads the entire header row with no indication that you are
in a table or that these words are separate column headers. When you tab
again, the entire next row is spoken with no indication that you are in a
table, or a row, or a cell, or that it is speaking 4 different cells as 1
text stream. While interesting that the screen reader would do that, the
information was not that useful all strung together. Additionally, in the
second table the heading was not spoken.
Jim
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:35 AM, KellyFord < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Strictly from the screen reader usability side, in your example, the
> headings make the page more usable in my view. In my experience more
> screen reader users know about heading navigation versus the commands to
> navigate through a table with different table navigation commands.
>
> I'd also ask though about something you mentioned on the page about the
> services themselves being available as another cell with text that isn't
> reported as a link. Your page says about this:
>
> There is actually a link to the respective service in the last column (not
> reproduced here) which can be triggered
> using ENTER (but is not announced as link).
>
> In my experience, many screen reader users won't know they can press enter
> here without an actionable role being communicated i.e. link.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
From: Devarshi Pant
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 2:18PM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markup inside data tables
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Jaws / nvda heading list does get you in the table but shouldn't users get
the context too (that it's the heading in a table)?
A heading, using your table as an example, '<hidden>Online Service
Table</hidden> Nursing Homes- could be useful as well.
Note that keyboard users might find tabbing on every row onerous. Also,
complexity / verbosity on every tabstop would increase with the size of the
table.
Wouldn't captions be useful here?
On Aug 30, 2017 09:13, "Detlev Fischer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
In the context of the test of a public services portal that lists many
services in a data table, the question came up whether it adds or takes
away from screen reader accessibility when the names of the services in
cells are marked up with headings mark-up (in addition to the column header
markup). Would that just create confusion, or afford quicker access for
screen reader users calling up a list of headings or using headings
shortcuts rather than table navigation?
I have creatred a page that has a simplified example, the first version
without heading markup and th esecond with h3 headings for the service
names in the first column:
http://www.3needs.org/en/testing/code/headings-in-tables.html
I would be interested both in your views regarding practical screen reader
usability and regarding WCAG 2.0 conformance.
Best,
Detlev
--
Detlev Fischer
testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese
Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg
Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45
Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5
http://www.testkreis.de
Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 7:24PM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 heading markupinsidedatatables
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Agree with Karen's and others' comments.
But I have found legitimate needs for subheads within tables used for statistical data, such as a government agency's table I reviewed today. These are data tables, not layout tables.
I don't think table subheads like the samples below should use the same tags as H1 to H6 used for navigation in the main document. Instead, I'd like the WAI committee to consider specific table subhead tags that will notify the user that they're entering a new section of content in the table, and maybe even let the user navigate within the table by these table subheads.
A small snippet of a sample table like this is below.
It has two subcategories for Social Security and Major Health Care Programs, along with their subtotals.
Item
2016
2017
2018
Social Security
Old-Age and Survivors Insurance
767
796
841
Disability Insurance
144
143
147
Subtotal
910
939
988
Major Health Care Programs
Medicare
692
701
711
Medicaid
368
385
410
Health insurance subsidies and related spending
42
51
61
Children's Health Insurance Program
14
15
13
Subtotal
1,117
1,152
1,194
I don't know what to call these items, maybe table section headers would work. Their purpose is to signal the reader that they are entering a new section of data within the table.
One technique we use with this type of table is to write a table summary that describes the table's structure, such as 'This table contains several subsections of data with individual subtotals for each subsection: Social Security, Major Health Care Programs,- etc.
--Bevi Chagnon
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 7:30PM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6 headingmarkupinsidedatatables
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> But I have found legitimate needs for subheads within tables used for statistical data, such as a government agency's table I reviewed today. These are data tables, not layout tables.
I agree - I have seen situations where we need headings within data tables because there can be large amounts of data in table cells that is indeed tabular data. Ideally the user agents and AT should be smart enough to figure out a heading structure within a cell might be specific to that cell rather than relative to the document as a whole -- but unfortunately this has never been well adopted.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
(703) 637-8957
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From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Wed, Aug 30 2017 7:40PM
Subject: Re: Asking for views on using h1-h6headingmarkupinsidedatatables
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Might this be something that the accessibility committees can discuss? The W.A.I., PDF/UA, and EPUB?
--Bevi Chagnon