E-mail List Archives
Thread: Experience with MS Teams
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Ajay Sharma
Date: Wed, Mar 21 2018 12:42AM
Subject: Experience with MS Teams
No previous message | Next message →
Hello there,
Need your expert thoughts on user experience with MS Teams, specially
around implementation of role="application" for both web and Windows
client.
Also how easy or how difficult is it to migrate from Skype for
Business to MS Teams for you?
Thanks,
Ajay
"Your talent is God's gift to you. What you do with it is your gift
back to God." - Leo Buscaglia
From: Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Date: Wed, Mar 21 2018 1:29AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found
role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This
certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/
virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users
can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those
regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can
provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application
role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Mon, Mar 26 2018 11:56AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: Ajay Sharma
Date: Tue, Mar 27 2018 11:15AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess for most of the screen reader users application role is tiresome. So one question if everything could be achievable by alternate means, why application role is there?
Or what could be done for making it a pleasant experience to the users or it is just a matter of perception.
Ajay
From: mhysnm1964@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Mar 28 2018 10:55PM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Application mode in any application is wrong. AS developers from my experience impleament the feature incorrectly. I am not a fan of the application mode at all. There is only rare cases when it is really necessary. Such as multi-media wigets. I have only ever seen one impleamentation of the application mode correctly done. I do come back to the question, why a web app when a normal desktop app could have done it equally as well and more than likely easier. But that is a completely different discussion.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Ajay Sharma
Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2018 4:15 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess for most of the screen reader users application role is tiresome. So one question if everything could be achievable by alternate means, why application role is there?
Or what could be done for making it a pleasant experience to the users or it is just a matter of perception.
Ajay
From: mhysnm1964@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Mar 28 2018 10:56PM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Question, how does NVDA handle this situation?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 4:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: mhysnm1964@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Mar 28 2018 10:57PM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Another question (to fast on the send button). How does Voice-Over handle this situation and the mobile platforms?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 4:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: Pratik Patel
Date: Thu, Mar 29 2018 9:59AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Having the discussion about application mode is important as Microsoft and Google both attempt to push web apps as a standard. While application mode could be problematic if not implemented correctly, I do not agree that it is useless. I strongly believe that it is an exaggeration to suggest that it is. When it is implemented, it becomes vital to ensure that focus management along with keyboard navigation are managed. One of the reasons why application mode is not implemented correctly is because the experience, in its entirety, has to be managed. The application has to be navigable. Users have been used to navigating the web by using the virtual cursor. (There is a move afoot that will eventually eliminate the virtual cursor.) But, in the meantime, examples such as Gmail, Google Inbox, Google Docs, etc serve as excellent pointers to developers for instances of how the application mode could be managed. I do agree that the application mode is not necessary for all apps. It has to be chosen correctly. But it should not be ignored either. Poor implementations in the past should not be used as examples of why it should not be done. They should, however, serve as examples of how not to do it. If we continue to argue that application mode is bad, we risk leaving behind a group of people. Let's make sure that web apps have as much usability for blind users as they promise to for sighted individuals.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:55 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Application mode in any application is wrong. AS developers from my experience impleament the feature incorrectly. I am not a fan of the application mode at all. There is only rare cases when it is really necessary. Such as multi-media wigets. I have only ever seen one impleamentation of the application mode correctly done. I do come back to the question, why a web app when a normal desktop app could have done it equally as well and more than likely easier. But that is a completely different discussion.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Ajay Sharma
Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2018 4:15 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess for most of the screen reader users application role is tiresome. So one question if everything could be achievable by alternate means, why application role is there?
Or what could be done for making it a pleasant experience to the users or it is just a matter of perception.
Ajay
From: Pratik Patel
Date: Thu, Mar 29 2018 10:06AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
If an area within an application is defined as role="document", then NVDA will automatically switch on the browse mode. Escaping from that returns the user to application mode. While annoying to contemplate, NVDA respects the author/developer's desire to use application mode for a particular purpose. Pressing NVDA+control+space escapes application mode and returns the user to the container that holds the application mode. NVDA+space also switches NVDA to and from browse mode to focus mode and in reverse.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:57 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Question, how does NVDA handle this situation?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 4:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: Pratik Patel
Date: Thu, Mar 29 2018 10:08AM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
Generally, this has not been a significant issue on iOS until now. Major developers who use application mode also have equivalent mobile apps that use native UI controls and navigation without needing to use the browser.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:58 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Another question (to fast on the send button). How does Voice-Over handle this situation and the mobile platforms?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 4:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Mar 29 2018 1:21PM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | Next message →
I personally am not in favor of virtual cursor/browse mode going away. The fact that JAWS has a touch cursor mode for software and NVDA has an object navigation mode shows that being able to navigate through non-interactive items is very important. VoiceOver also allows navigation in different modes allowing you to drill down and quickly navigate among different types of elements and to non-interactive content. For example, you can navigate or swipe and then go into edit mode to interact with an input field.
Taking away the users ability to get at the granularity of that information and replacing it with custom hotkeys to move between items in my opinion has not been successful for most users. How that browser mode is built or caches or not cached may change due to necessity on platforms-- but at some level users of screen readers will still need to navigate the accessibility tree without relying solely on navigation through interactive content.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
See you at CSUN in March!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Pratik Patel
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:00 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Having the discussion about application mode is important as Microsoft and Google both attempt to push web apps as a standard. While application mode could be problematic if not implemented correctly, I do not agree that it is useless. I strongly believe that it is an exaggeration to suggest that it is. When it is implemented, it becomes vital to ensure that focus management along with keyboard navigation are managed. One of the reasons why application mode is not implemented correctly is because the experience, in its entirety, has to be managed. The application has to be navigable. Users have been used to navigating the web by using the virtual cursor. (There is a move afoot that will eventually eliminate the virtual cursor.) But, in the meantime, examples such as Gmail, Google Inbox, Google Docs, etc serve as excellent pointers to developers for instances of how the application mode could be managed. I do agree that the application mode is not necessary for all apps. It has to be chosen correctly. But it should not be ignored either. Poor implementations in the past should not be used as examples of why it should not be done. They should, however, serve as examples of how not to do it. If we continue to argue that application mode is bad, we risk leaving behind a group of people. Let's make sure that web apps have as much usability for blind users as they promise to for sighted individuals.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:55 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Application mode in any application is wrong. AS developers from my experience impleament the feature incorrectly. I am not a fan of the application mode at all. There is only rare cases when it is really necessary. Such as multi-media wigets. I have only ever seen one impleamentation of the application mode correctly done. I do come back to the question, why a web app when a normal desktop app could have done it equally as well and more than likely easier. But that is a completely different discussion.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Ajay Sharma
Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2018 4:15 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess for most of the screen reader users application role is tiresome. So one question if everything could be achievable by alternate means, why application role is there?
Or what could be done for making it a pleasant experience to the users or it is just a matter of perception.
Ajay
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Sat, Mar 31 2018 7:13PM
Subject: Re: Experience with MS Teams
← Previous message | No next message
> Question, how does NVDA handle this situation?
NVDA seems to allow the user to go in and out of forms mode with commands like NVDA-Key+space.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:57 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Question, how does NVDA handle this situation?
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 4:57 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
> I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
With JAWS press numpad Plus twice quickly to get out of application mode. I agree these situations are problematic even if there is a way to get out.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
Visit us online:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Vemaarapu Venkatesh
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:29 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Experience with MS Teams
Hi,
I have experience using MS Teams some time back and found role="application" on left nave, chat list and chat history regions. This certainly doesn't let users to quit from application mode to browse/ virtual modes using ESCC key. This prohibits the use of quick keys so users can't navigate by headings, landmarks etc when the focus is in those regions. I am against the use of role="application" here instead they can provide that arrow key navigation alone with scripting without application role.
Thanks,
Venkatesh