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Thread: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Jim Homme
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 1:42PM
Subject: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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Hi,
Is there a way to do this?
Thanks.
Jim
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 2:34PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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I've purchased Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced and it has tools similar to Acrobat and an add in to Microsoft Office. I can create an accessible PDF from my Accessible Word document.
I've also purchased Foxit Phantom Pro and it too has tools similar to Acrobat and a Ribbon in Word (only conversion I've tried). I didn't get a tagged PDF from the Foxit Ribbon and can't find a setting to do so, but am still looking. The Foxit tool took over my computer in terms of PDF and I had to 'turn it off" in several places. It kept fighting me when I tried to make Acrobat my default PDF tool. I have turned off every Foxit add-on for my browser and still, EVERU time I try to download a PDF I get a dialog asking me to allow Foxit to open it...and if I say don't allow, I can't download the file. This is a problem because it seems that if I open a PDF in Foxit, I can't do anything with it in Acrobat or PowerPPDF. This is REALLY annoying.
So am still looking at both of them but am spending time trying to figure out how to stop the Foxit application from taking over my computer.
Cheers, Karen
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 29, 2019, at 3:42 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Is there a way to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ==========
> Jim Homme
> Digital Accessibility
> Bender Consulting Services
> 412-787-8567
> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
>
> > > >
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 4:19PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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 I've recently been testing Microsoft Word add-ins from axes4 (axesPDF
for Word) and from CommonLook (CommonLook Office). Both of them can
indeed produce accessible, PDF/UA-compliant PDFs directly from a
properly created Word document. But they are both a bit brittle at this
point, and can't really be relied upon in an enterprise environment to
produce all your PDFs accessibly all the time.
I intend to produce a detailed review of these two products some time in
the next several months. Maybe I'll look at the Foxit Phantom Pro tool
that Karen mentions as well, since it seems to do something similar.
Also, note that the axesPDF for Word and CommonLook Office plugins for
Word both use an annual licensing model and both of them currently cost
considerably more than Acrobat Professional. Moreover, in my opinion, at
this point, they both will still periodically need someone to "fix up"
PDFs that don't get converted perfectly for whatever reason. So while
they may very well be viable options to add to a remediation workflow,
neither of them can as yet completely replace the need for Acrobat
Professional.
As far as I know, at the moment, there is no full replacement for
Acrobat Professional, and it is a necessary and inescapable piece of
software required for creating proper PDFs in your organization.
Much as I resent Adobe's business model and their licensing structure,
one shouldn't forget the range of things that Acrobat can do - not just
tagging regular PDFs, but also scanning, OCR, secure signing, document
cleaning, page extraction and replacement, font embedding, complete form
creation, data collection, etc, etc, etc. Compared to the cost of the
other tools that I use to remediate broken and inaccessible PDFs, the
cost of Acrobat Professional is a steal.
axesPDF for Word:
https://www.axes4.com/axespdf-for-word-overview.html
CommonLook Office:
https://commonlook.com/accessibility-software/commonlook-office-globalaccess/
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
On 2019-03-29 16:34, Karlen Communications wrote:
> I've purchased Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced and it has tools similar to Acrobat and an add in to Microsoft Office. I can create an accessible PDF from my Accessible Word document.
>
> I've also purchased Foxit Phantom Pro and it too has tools similar to Acrobat and a Ribbon in Word (only conversion I've tried). I didn't get a tagged PDF from the Foxit Ribbon and can't find a setting to do so, but am still looking. The Foxit tool took over my computer in terms of PDF and I had to 'turn it off" in several places. It kept fighting me when I tried to make Acrobat my default PDF tool. I have turned off every Foxit add-on for my browser and still, EVERU time I try to download a PDF I get a dialog asking me to allow Foxit to open it...and if I say don't allow, I can't download the file. This is a problem because it seems that if I open a PDF in Foxit, I can't do anything with it in Acrobat or PowerPPDF. This is REALLY annoying.
>
> So am still looking at both of them but am spending time trying to figure out how to stop the Foxit application from taking over my computer.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 29, 2019, at 3:42 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Is there a way to do this?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> =========>> Jim Homme
>> Digital Accessibility
>> Bender Consulting Services
>> 412-787-8567
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 4:33PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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On 2019-03-29 16:34, Karlen Communications wrote:
> I've purchased Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced and it has tools similar to Acrobat and an add in to Microsoft Office. I can create an accessible PDF from my Accessible Word document.
Hey Karen, I guess I didn't read your response very carefully and I
mushed together your comments about Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced and about
Foxit Phantom Pro.
So Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced can serve as (more or less) a full
replacement for Acrobat? It can do all the tag editing and scanning and
whatnot that you might need to do with a completely untagged PDF from
some random source? It's not easy to uncover that info from their website.
I haven't looked into this software at all, and am kinda curious now!
Nuance PowerPDF Advanced:
https://www.nuance.com/print-capture-and-pdf-solutions/pdf-and-document-conversion/power-pdf-converter/power-pdf-advanced.html
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 4:43PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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We did an extensive review of FoxIt within the past 13 months. In short,
don't use it. While it didn't grow into everything like Karen mentioned, it
didn't do much more than alt text, if I remember correctly, even though it
claimed to do much more.
--
Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 4:35 PM Karlen Communications <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I've purchased Nuance's PowerPDF Advanced and it has tools similar to
> Acrobat and an add in to Microsoft Office. I can create an accessible PDF
> from my Accessible Word document.
>
> I've also purchased Foxit Phantom Pro and it too has tools similar to
> Acrobat and a Ribbon in Word (only conversion I've tried). I didn't get a
> tagged PDF from the Foxit Ribbon and can't find a setting to do so, but am
> still looking. The Foxit tool took over my computer in terms of PDF and I
> had to 'turn it off" in several places. It kept fighting me when I tried to
> make Acrobat my default PDF tool. I have turned off every Foxit add-on for
> my browser and still, EVERU time I try to download a PDF I get a dialog
> asking me to allow Foxit to open it...and if I say don't allow, I can't
> download the file. This is a problem because it seems that if I open a PDF
> in Foxit, I can't do anything with it in Acrobat or PowerPPDF. This is
> REALLY annoying.
>
> So am still looking at both of them but am spending time trying to figure
> out how to stop the Foxit application from taking over my computer.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 29, 2019, at 3:42 PM, Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Is there a way to do this?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > Jim Homme
> > Digital Accessibility
> > Bender Consulting Services
> > 412-787-8567
> >
> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 6:11PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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One of the nuance PDF apps has for many years supported tagging. PDF Creator Pro previously did -- but as Karen mentioned the support is more limited to what Acrobat provides. Several years ago when I checked it did not have the table editor capabilities, etc.
Here is a link to a Nuance page that talks about some of the features.
https://www.nuance.com/products/help/NuancePDF/en_US/tagged_pdf.htm
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
703.637.8957 office
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From: chagnon
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2019 9:48PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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If you're using a recent version of MS Word/Windows, the built-in MS File /
Save As / PDF creates an accessible PDF that's just as good as one made via
the Acrobat Ribbon bar (PDF Maker). Hits all the key issues of an accessible
PDF, but there are some "inconsistencies" like P tags holding figures for
the borders of each table row, or crazy blank P tags showing up for no good
reason.
But then again, Acrobat PDF Maker has its insane quirks, too.
FoxIt now also creates accessible PDFs that are decent, but also with their
own quirks. But note that although the company states it is a US
corporation, upon investigation it appears it might have strong ties to the
Chinese government. I state this only for those who work on government
information, which in my professional opinion, should stay within US
borders.
Nuance's PDF products don't yet have accessibility features.
- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
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Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2019 9:58AM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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Am now at my desktop computer rather than my iPad so can write a bit more.
Foxit wanted to take over everything PDF on my desktop computer. Even when I
said NOT to make it the default PDF tool, it insisted on opening EVERY PDF
in Foxit. I found that if I opened a PDF document in Foxit closed it and
then opened it in Adobe Acrobat Pro DC, I couldn't do anything with it
except read it. I've found this on two documents that I allowed Foxit to
open which is why I then spent several days trying to make Foxit NOT my
default PDF tool.
Foxit does have a Tags Tree, I can use F2 to quickly edit Tags, there is an
accessibility checker. I've only done a cursory look at more extensive tools
as I've spent time trying to turn it off as my default PDF tool.
In my browser, I've turned off EVERY add-in related to Foxit that I can
find, have tried to find the setting in the foxit UI to NOT open downloaded
files in Foxit but it still comes up as wanting me to allow Foxit to open
any PDF I try to download. I now have to right click on a PDF document link
and choose Save target as if I want to save a PDF document without it
launching and opening in Foxit. If I say don't allow Foxit to open the PDF
from a website, I get a blank web page and am not able to download the PDF
unless I go back, right click on the link and Save target as. If the PDF is
associated with a download button, all bets are off, I can't download it/for
example from the Level Access site - their new white paper on digital
accessibility.
Yes, I've tried saying Don't Allow and then checking the check box to not
show this dialog again but Foxit isn't paying any attention and still tried
to open EVRY PDF from a website in Foxit.
Nuance's PowerPDF is more benign in that it didn't try to take over my
computer and accepted the fact that I still wanted Acrobat to be my default
PDF tool.
Nuance's PowerPDF has a Tags Tree, I can use F2 to edit tags on the fly and
can run the accessibility checker which is much like the one in Adobe
Acrobat Pro.
Both Foxit and PowerPDF say they can create accessible forms but I haven't
had time to try that yet...am still trying to find a way for Foxit NOT to
take over the downloading of PDF documents.
BTW, Foxit wouldn't even accept my going into the Windows settings and
saying that PDF documents are to be associated with Adobe Acrobat Pro. I had
to repeat this process over 5 times before I finally got Foxit to let go!
If you are looking for a different tool, I'd start with Nuance's PowerPDF
unless you have a lot of extra time and enjoy fighting with an application
for control of your computer!
Cheers, Karen
From: chagnon
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2019 12:45PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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Karen's description of FoxIt taking control of her PC should be reported to
the FTC: it's against fair trade practices for software to prevent its
competitors from operating on the operating system, or not respecting the
user's right to choose the app. To me, it's similar to malware the
redirects your web searches to their website. It's a form hijacking.
In Karen's case, she has the right to choose which PDF software application
to use.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1 choose the subsection
Internet Services, Online Shopping, or Computers from the left navigation.
If we don't complain, then the government cannot protect us from this type
of predatory software control.
FYI, a similar situation happened in the early 1990s when Microsoft Windows
and TrueType fonts were new. At that time, Windows users couldn't install
and use PostScript fonts (which were proprietary Adobe fonts back then).
Microsoft claimed we could, but PostScript fonts just wouldn't work in the
real world.
Well, until a colleague discovered that there was a user setting...buried 18
layers deep inside a maze of nested menus that when checked, prevented
non-TrueType fonts from being accepted by the operating system. And by
default, it was checked to do this. (I wonder if the Microsoft engineer who
dreamed this up got a bonus in his paycheck.)
Microsoft was forced to correct this, and many more infractions in the
following years.
If FoxIt is indeed doing this, then complain to the FTC about it. Other than
voting with our wallets, that's the only method we consumers have to rein in
these renegade software companies and stop their unscrupulous practices.
Just my 2 cents worth!
- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
- - -
Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Tue, Apr 02 2019 11:00AM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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An update on my "misadventures" with Foxit Phantom for Business.
Wit my order I apparently had a "high priority" support plan. I could either
call the phone number for technical support or e-mail them and my request
for support would be placed in a high priority queue or I would get an
immediate response.
First, in trying for 2 days at various times of the day, no one answered the
phone. All I got was a voicemail box where I could leave a message. And no
one responded to my voice mail.
So I tried the e-mail route. As a reminder, Foxit wouldn't let me download
any PDF without viewing it in Foxit despite my user settings to the
contrary.
It has been two days now and I hear crickets from tech support. Also tried
the phone number again this morning and got the voice mail....again.
I've now asked for my money back, have removed Foxit from my computer, even
having to go into the registry to get rid of it and can FINALLY download a
PDF document using my preferred PDF viewer!
Just an update FYI!
Cheers, Karen.
From: Jim Homme
Date: Tue, Apr 02 2019 1:32PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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Hi,
I hope Microsoft decides to reveal table header information to assistive technology at some point. I think this is one of the major reasons that someone would need Adobe Professional. I'm unsure how well forms carry over to PDF. I've yet to try either the legacy form controls or the newer ones from MS and do a Save as PDF.
Thanks.
Jim
==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Tue, Apr 02 2019 4:55PM
Subject: Re: Making Accessible PDF's Without Using Adobe Pro
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It is best to create an accessible form template in Word and hen add the
form controls in Acrobat. Two years ago I started using a tagged PDF form
template and this works well.
In a form template don't use symbols for check boxes or radio buttons, don't
use tables or underline for text entry. Just create the "form labels" or the
text identifying the information you need and leave enough space to provide
the answer you are asking for.
Form controls from Word, whether the ActiveX legacy ones or the Content
Controls don't convert to accessible form controls in a PDF document.
Cheers, Karen