E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: glen walker
Date: Thu, Jul 11 2019 6:53PM
Subject: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
No previous message | Next message →

The SC says, "The purpose of each input field collecting information *about
the user *can be programmatically determined when..."

Does "about the user" literally mean it must be information about the
person that is filling out the form?

For example, if I'm on my kid's school website and filling out a field trip
form and I fill in my name, contact number, etc, that's obviously
information about me. But if I'm also filling out information about my
child, such as their name, allergies, or whatever, that's not information
"about the user".

Does that mean the form fields regarding my child do not fall within 1.3.5?

If not, why not? Wouldn't the benefits of identifying an input field
regarding me also be beneficial for input fields not about me? Or would
that cause confusion? Say there was a birthdate field for me, and there's
technology that swaps out the birthdate label with an icon of a birthday
cake. But then there's also a birthdate field for my child. Would it be
confusing for both fields to have birthday cake icons and that's why the
success criteria only applies to input fields about me specifically?

Or, if the form I'm filling out is all about my child. No information
about me. It seems like the input purpose would be beneficial.

Glen

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 1:39AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | Next message →

On 12/07/2019 01:53, glen walker wrote:
> The SC says, "The purpose of each input field collecting information *about
> the user *can be programmatically determined when..."
>
> Does "about the user" literally mean it must be information about the
> person that is filling out the form?

Yes

> For example, if I'm on my kid's school website and filling out a field trip
> form and I fill in my name, contact number, etc, that's obviously
> information about me. But if I'm also filling out information about my
> child, such as their name, allergies, or whatever, that's not information
> "about the user".
>
> Does that mean the form fields regarding my child do not fall within 1.3.5?

Well it's your child's machine (?) so unless you're logged in as a
different user, i.e. you're using your child's profile/browser, the
"you" that the machine would know about is your child.

Basically ask yourself: who does the user agent (and/or any third party
tool like password manager, e.g. 1Password) think the "user" is.

> If not, why not? Wouldn't the benefits of identifying an input field
> regarding me also be beneficial for input fields not about me? Or would
> that cause confusion? Say there was a birthdate field for me, and there's
> technology that swaps out the birthdate label with an icon of a birthday
> cake. But then there's also a birthdate field for my child. Would it be
> confusing for both fields to have birthday cake icons and that's why the
> success criteria only applies to input fields about me specifically?

Yes, it's about confusion and not being able to disambiguate
programmatically when it's, say, YOUR birthday (where the "you" is "the
user" whose machine/user agent/etc it is) and just a birthday field in
general that is not specifically yours. Also again think about
autocomplete tools in the UA/third party...if both birthday fields were
programmatically identified the same way, they'd offer to
autocomplete/autofill them both with the same birthdate (the one for
"the user").

> Or, if the form I'm filling out is all about my child. No information
> about me. It seems like the input purpose would be beneficial.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 1:40AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | Next message →

On 12/07/2019 08:39, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
> On 12/07/2019 01:53, glen walker wrote:
>> The SC says, "The purpose of each input field collecting information
>> *about
>> the user *can be programmatically determined when..."
>>
>> Does "about the user" literally mean it must be information about the
>> person that is filling out the form?
>
> Yes

And to clarify: this "yes" assumes that the person filling out the form
is the regular user of the UA/browser (as I then went on about later in
my reply).

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 1:54AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | Next message →

Lastly, the more general point of "wouldn't it be helpful if all form
fields of a particular type were identified" probably falls more under
1.3.6 Identify Purpose in general, though note that while for 1.3.5 the
commonly understood technique at this point in time is to use the
autocomplete values defined in HTML, for 1.3.6 there is no universally
agreed-upon (and supported by all user agents/third party apps/etc)
standard way of achieving this.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: John Foliot
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 6:37AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | Next message →

+1 to Patrick.

JF

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 2:54 AM Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Lastly, the more general point of "wouldn't it be helpful if all form
> fields of a particular type were identified" probably falls more under
> 1.3.6 Identify Purpose in general, though note that while for 1.3.5 the
> commonly understood technique at this point in time is to use the
> autocomplete values defined in HTML, for 1.3.6 there is no universally
> agreed-upon (and supported by all user agents/third party apps/etc)
> standard way of achieving this.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > >


--
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com

From: glen walker
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 7:32AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | Next message →

I didn't want to start an autocomplete discussion again. I was only
focusing on "about the user".

> Well it's your child's machine (?)
> Basically ask yourself: who does the user agent think the "user" is.

No, it's my machine. The UA knows it's me. I'm filling out a fieldtrip
form, or maybe a dentist appointment, or anything where I, as the parent,
must fill in information about myself and fill in information about my
child. Or maybe I'm applying for a loan and I need to fill out my
information and my spouse's information. Or a senior home application
where I fill out information about myself and my parent. Whatever the
case, I'm using my computer because I'm the one filling the information out.

So with regards to 1.3.5 specifically (ignoring 1.3.6 for AAA), only the
fields that relate to *me* have to conform to 1.3.5?

Name:
Job Title:
Salary:
Spouse Name:
Souse Job Title:
Spouse Salary:

The first two must specify "name" and "organization-title" (there is no
input purpose defined for salary) but the spouse fields don't?

From: John Foliot
Date: Fri, Jul 12 2019 8:33AM
Subject: Re: Does 1.3.5 apply if the form you're filling out is not about *you*?
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Glen,

> So with regards to 1.3.5 specifically (ignoring 1.3.6 for AAA), only the
fields that relate to *me* have to conform to 1.3.5?


Yes, you are correct. Thinking about what happens when you use the only
current technique (@autocomplete) is a useful guide as to which fields are
required to be tagged - as you rightly comment, that "pre-fill" data that
is stored on your machine is related to you, "the user", as opposed to the
parent or spouse of another user.

It has been previously noted that it would also be useful if, for example,
*all* of the fields that were looking for family name on the "fieldtrip
form" were tagged, but then when you start to think about some modern
"nuclear" families where there may in fact be multiple family names under
one roof, and you can see how it would start to also introduce additional
burden on some users (who would instead be spending time removing data from
fields).

So while this Success Criteria may seem to be very finely scoped to *just
the user*, it was done so after a fair bit of thought and discussion, and
again, your understanding is correct.

HTH

JF

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 8:33 AM glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I didn't want to start an autocomplete discussion again. I was only
> focusing on "about the user".
>
> > Well it's your child's machine (?)
> > Basically ask yourself: who does the user agent think the "user" is.
>
> No, it's my machine. The UA knows it's me. I'm filling out a fieldtrip
> form, or maybe a dentist appointment, or anything where I, as the parent,
> must fill in information about myself and fill in information about my
> child. Or maybe I'm applying for a loan and I need to fill out my
> information and my spouse's information. Or a senior home application
> where I fill out information about myself and my parent. Whatever the
> case, I'm using my computer because I'm the one filling the information
> out.
>
> So with regards to 1.3.5 specifically (ignoring 1.3.6 for AAA), only the
> fields that relate to *me* have to conform to 1.3.5?
>
> Name:
> Job Title:
> Salary:
> Spouse Name:
> Souse Job Title:
> Spouse Salary:
>
> The first two must specify "name" and "organization-title" (there is no
> input purpose defined for salary) but the spouse fields don't?
> > > > >


--
*​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com