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Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)

From: glen walker
Date: Fri, Apr 17 2020 9:41AM
Subject: 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats
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If an animation plays for 3 seconds, it falls below the 5 second threshold
where 2.2.2 would apply. But if that animation plays again after 20
seconds have passed, is that considered longer than 5 seconds? Do you take
the cumulative animation time rather than the individual animation time?

3 seconds of animation + 20 seconds nothing happening + 3 seconds of
animation = 26 seconds?

I've always thought of it as cumulative but I've re-read the success
criterion and the understanding section and all the success examples and
all the sufficient techniques and all the failures several times and I'm
not sure someone couldn't argue that the success criterion only applies to
the individual animation, which is less than 5 seconds.

Part of the understanding section says that if an animation is less than 5
seconds, then a user can wait for it to stop and can then go about their
business and not be distracted. They'll be able to read the page for 20
seconds and then the animation will start again and distract the user.
They could again wait for the animation to stop then would have to
re-orient themselves back to what they were reading, which will take up
some of the 20 seconds they have to read before the animation starts again.

Logically (to me), it makes sense that we view the cumulative effect of the
animation but playing the devil's advocate, I could see someone arguing
they they made a 3 second animation. It just happens to repeat
occasionally and that that situation isn't spelled out in the success
criterion.

I think this type of argument would be focusing on the letter of the law
instead of the spirit of the law. The intent of 2.2.2 is to not be
distracting. What's the threshold of not being distracting? Can a 3
second animation play and then 5 or 10 minutes go by before it plays again
and that's not distracting? The threshold would be different for different
people.

I will keep promoting that animations be able to be stopped no matter how
much time occurs between the animations but was curious if anyone has run
into this situation.

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 17 2020 10:04AM
Subject: Re: 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats
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On 17/04/2020 16:41, glen walker wrote:
[...]
> I think this type of argument would be focusing on the letter of the law
> instead of the spirit of the law.

Yup, this goes into "lawyering" territory, but agree that just going by
the normative wording of the SC, I'd say the animation counts as "done"
when it stops (though you could take THAT to the extreme and claim that
if it paused even for a microsecond just before the 5 seconds are over,
and then kicks in again, "technically" the animation fell below the 5
sec threshold too). But in this case, it's a bit more clear-cut when
applying common sense at least.

My purely personal take would be: this nominally passes 2.2.2, but as a
best practice I'd suggest that the client still changes it/provides a
pause mechanism.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Apr 17 2020 10:14AM
Subject: Re: 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats
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I would argue that the animation is of infinite length and it just happens not to change for 20 seconds. If there is not a mechanism to stop it, it will continue indefinitely.

The assertion that a brief pause in an animation defines its end and resets the timer, is spurious. Many continuous animations such as "loading" indicators contain brief pauses, but it would be quite a stretch to suggest that they are a series of short animations rather than a continuous one.

Perhaps the test should be whether the animation stops and restarts by itself (in which case I consider it to be continuous) or if it only restarts in response to an event such as a page load, scroll or click event.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: 17 April 2020 17:05
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats

On 17/04/2020 16:41, glen walker wrote:
[...]
> I think this type of argument would be focusing on the letter of the
> law instead of the spirit of the law.

Yup, this goes into "lawyering" territory, but agree that just going by the normative wording of the SC, I'd say the animation counts as "done"
when it stops (though you could take THAT to the extreme and claim that if it paused even for a microsecond just before the 5 seconds are over, and then kicks in again, "technically" the animation fell below the 5 sec threshold too). But in this case, it's a bit more clear-cut when applying common sense at least.

My purely personal take would be: this nominally passes 2.2.2, but as a best practice I'd suggest that the client still changes it/provides a pause mechanism.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Amber Holladay
Date: Mon, Apr 20 2020 4:53PM
Subject: Re: 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats
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Imagine you are quarantined in the house with your child for 2 months and
they are doing something that is annoying and completely distracting to
everyone else in the house. Finally you tell them to "stop!" Twenty seconds
later they start doing it again. "I thought I told you to stop," you say.
Your child: "I did stop."

Stop means stop, it does not mean "give me a 20 second break."


On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:14 AM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> I would argue that the animation is of infinite length and it just happens
> not to change for 20 seconds. If there is not a mechanism to stop it, it
> will continue indefinitely.
>
> The assertion that a brief pause in an animation defines its end and
> resets the timer, is spurious. Many continuous animations such as "loading"
> indicators contain brief pauses, but it would be quite a stretch to suggest
> that they are a series of short animations rather than a continuous one.
>
> Perhaps the test should be whether the animation stops and restarts by
> itself (in which case I consider it to be continuous) or if it only
> restarts in response to an event such as a page load, scroll or click event.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: 17 April 2020 17:05
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that
> repeats
>
> On 17/04/2020 16:41, glen walker wrote:
> [...]
> > I think this type of argument would be focusing on the letter of the
> > law instead of the spirit of the law.
>
> Yup, this goes into "lawyering" territory, but agree that just going by
> the normative wording of the SC, I'd say the animation counts as "done"
> when it stops (though you could take THAT to the extreme and claim that if
> it paused even for a microsecond just before the 5 seconds are over, and
> then kicks in again, "technically" the animation fell below the 5 sec
> threshold too). But in this case, it's a bit more clear-cut when applying
> common sense at least.
>
> My purely personal take would be: this nominally passes 2.2.2, but as a
> best practice I'd suggest that the client still changes it/provides a pause
> mechanism.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > > > > > >

From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Tue, Apr 21 2020 5:08AM
Subject: Re: 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats
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This example brightened up my morning 😊

Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
University Communications and Marketing
West Chester University
610.738.0589

From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Amber Holladay
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 6:54 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that repeats

Imagine you are quarantined in the house with your child for 2 months and
they are doing something that is annoying and completely distracting to
everyone else in the house. Finally you tell them to "stop!" Twenty seconds
later they start doing it again. "I thought I told you to stop," you say.
Your child: "I did stop."

Stop means stop, it does not mean "give me a 20 second break."


On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:14 AM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >>
wrote:

> I would argue that the animation is of infinite length and it just happens
> not to change for 20 seconds. If there is not a mechanism to stop it, it
> will continue indefinitely.
>
> The assertion that a brief pause in an animation defines its end and
> resets the timer, is spurious. Many continuous animations such as "loading"
> indicators contain brief pauses, but it would be quite a stretch to suggest
> that they are a series of short animations rather than a continuous one.
>
> Perhaps the test should be whether the animation stops and restarts by
> itself (in which case I consider it to be continuous) or if it only
> restarts in response to an event such as a page load, scroll or click event.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >> On Behalf Of
> Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: 17 April 2020 17:05
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] 2.2.2 Pause, Stop, Hide - short animation that
> repeats
>
> On 17/04/2020 16:41, glen walker wrote:
> [...]
> > I think this type of argument would be focusing on the letter of the
> > law instead of the spirit of the law.
>
> Yup, this goes into "lawyering" territory, but agree that just going by
> the normative wording of the SC, I'd say the animation counts as "done"
> when it stops (though you could take THAT to the extreme and claim that if
> it paused even for a microsecond just before the 5 seconds are over, and
> then kicks in again, "technically" the animation fell below the 5 sec
> threshold too). But in this case, it's a bit more clear-cut when applying
> common sense at least.
>
> My purely personal take would be: this nominally passes 2.2.2, but as a
> best practice I'd suggest that the client still changes it/provides a pause
> mechanism.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/<https://www.splintered.co.uk> | https://github.com/patrickhlauke<https://github.com/patrickhlauke>
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/<https://flickr.com/photos/redux> | https://www.deviantart.com/redux<https://www.deviantart.com/redux>
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > > > > > >