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Thread: Table Accessibility
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Khaleel Eksheir
Date: Mon, Jun 08 2020 2:21PM
Subject: Table Accessibility
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Hello,
A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a
table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't
show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't
have the option of Alt Text.
Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table
replaces Alt Text?
Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
Thank you,
Khaleel
Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist
UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar
<https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
| http://www.ds.uncc.edu
[image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at
704-687-0042. Thank you
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From: Murphy, Sean
Date: Mon, Jun 08 2020 5:08PM
Subject: Re: Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
You have two questions here.
Alt tags (alt text) is only for images. Office applications do have a means of applying alt text to images. I don't have the instructions on hand how to do this. You do not apply alt text to tables. Hence why you did not get a failure which is correct.
This also applies to Google Docs. If they have not built in the ability of applying alt tags to images, then it is responsibility of Google to fix this.
Sean
Sean Murphy | Accessibility expert/lead
Digital Accessibility manager
Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
www.telstra.com
This email may contain confidential information.
If I've sent it to you by accident, please delete it immediately
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Khaleel Eksheir
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2020 6:21 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
[External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
Hello,
A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't have the option of Alt Text.
Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table replaces Alt Text?
Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
Thank you,
Khaleel
Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
| http://www.ds.uncc.edu
[image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at 704-687-0042. Thank you
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From: Brian Lovely
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 5:44AM
Subject: Re: [External Sender] Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Khaleel asked " A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to
Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text? "
Alt is an attribute of the <img> element; it has no effect on any other
element. Unless there's something unusual about this particular table, the
semantics of the table element is all the necessary "alt text". Say you
have a set of key > value pairs, describing a frozen dessert:
type > ice cream
flavor > vanilla
additions > chocolate chips
You could present this data as a very small table with a single row of
headers and a single row of data. The semantics of the table would inform a
user of assistive technology that the data was tabular, and that they could
then leverage any table-specific navigational scheme that their particular
software and/or device offered (for instance screen reader keyboard
shortcuts). The only other element that could qualify as "alt" is the
caption, but if an author is confident that a sighted user will understand
the nature of the table in context, I'm not sure that an assistive
technology-only caption is necessary.
>
>
--
*Brian Lovely*
Capital One Digital Accessibility
804.389.1064
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
From: England, Kristina
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 6:15AM
Subject: Re: Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Khaleel,
I can't answer if it fails without it, but it is best practice to include a table summary. What version of PowerPoint are you using? When you say it's not showing, do you mean it's not being read off when using a screen reader? To your point, there are two ways of presenting the table summary, either visibly above the table or in the Table Properties Alt Text. Most higher ed institutions include how to add alt text to a table in their accessible document training. Microsoft includes it in their Accessible Tables training as well so I would definitely say it is best practice to include a table summary, whether above the table or as alt text. I definitely would like more information so I can recreate on my end as several higher ed institutions would benefit from knowing if the alt text is broken in the current version of PowerPoint.
Kristina
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Khaleel Eksheir < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 4:21 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
[External Sender]
Hello,
A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a
table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't
show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't
have the option of Alt Text.
Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table
replaces Alt Text?
Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
Thank you,
Khaleel
Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist
UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar
<https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York<https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>>
| http://www.ds.uncc.edu<;http://www.ds.uncc.edu>;
[image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at
704-687-0042. Thank you
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From: Laura Fathauer
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 6:23AM
Subject: Re: Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
You can add an alt to an image in google docs. However, google mail
has yet to provide the ability to add alt to images in email when
composing. I've submitted a request to google to have them add that
capability.
Laura
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:08 PM Murphy, Sean
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> You have two questions here.
>
> Alt tags (alt text) is only for images. Office applications do have a means of applying alt text to images. I don't have the instructions on hand how to do this. You do not apply alt text to tables. Hence why you did not get a failure which is correct.
>
> This also applies to Google Docs. If they have not built in the ability of applying alt tags to images, then it is responsibility of Google to fix this.
>
> Sean
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Accessibility expert/lead
> Digital Accessibility manager
> Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
>
> www.telstra.com
>
> This email may contain confidential information.
> If I've sent it to you by accident, please delete it immediately
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Khaleel Eksheir
> Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2020 6:21 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> Hello,
>
> A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
>
> I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
> Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't have the option of Alt Text.
>
> Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table replaces Alt Text?
>
> Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
>
> Thank you,
> Khaleel
>
> Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
> 9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
> Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
> | http://www.ds.uncc.edu
>
> [image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at 704-687-0042. Thank you
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
> > > > > > >
From: Farough, David (CFP/PSC)
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 7:02AM
Subject: Re: Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
The following is a really nice resource for document accessibility.
Understanding Document Accessibility<https://pressbooks.library.ryerson.ca/docs/>
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Laura Fathauer
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 8:23 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
You can add an alt to an image in google docs. However, google mail
has yet to provide the ability to add alt to images in email when
composing. I've submitted a request to google to have them add that
capability.
Laura
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:08 PM Murphy, Sean
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> You have two questions here.
>
> Alt tags (alt text) is only for images. Office applications do have a means of applying alt text to images. I don't have the instructions on hand how to do this. You do not apply alt text to tables. Hence why you did not get a failure which is correct.
>
> This also applies to Google Docs. If they have not built in the ability of applying alt tags to images, then it is responsibility of Google to fix this.
>
> Sean
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Accessibility expert/lead
> Digital Accessibility manager
> Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
>
> www.telstra.com
>
> This email may contain confidential information.
> If I've sent it to you by accident, please delete it immediately
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Khaleel Eksheir
> Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2020 6:21 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> Hello,
>
> A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
>
> I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
> Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't have the option of Alt Text.
>
> Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table replaces Alt Text?
>
> Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
>
> Thank you,
> Khaleel
>
> Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
> 9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
> Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
> | http://www.ds.uncc.edu
>
> [image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at 704-687-0042. Thank you
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
>
> > >
> > >
From: Graham Armfield
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 8:17AM
Subject: Re: [External Sender]Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
As a suggestion, if a table benefits from some kind of description or
'alternate text' then it's probably best to use the <caption> element.
From previous testing (admittedly some time ago) the <caption> element
should be the first child of the <table> element or some screen readers
won't voice it.
The <caption> element can be styled using CSS if required.
Many browsers/screen readers still support the summary attribute on the
<table> element, but this attribute was deprecated some years ago, so is
not recommended for future use.
Regards
Graham Armfield
coolfields.co.uk <http://www.coolfields.co.uk/>;
M:07905 590026
T: 01483 856613
@coolfields <https://twitter.com/coolfields>
Khaleel asked " A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to
> Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text? "
>
>
>
From: Khaleel Eksheir
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 8:51AM
Subject: Re: Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Sean,
Thank you so much for your feedback. Google Docs allows Alt Text to images.
The question was about tables. Because MS allowed Alt Text to tables, I
used to recommend it. But as a result of my inquiry, I learned that MS is
phasing out Alt Text from tables which makes sense.
Thank you so much,
Khaleel
Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist
UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar
<https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
| http://www.ds.uncc.edu
[image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at
704-687-0042. Thank you
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:08 PM Murphy, Sean <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> You have two questions here.
>
> Alt tags (alt text) is only for images. Office applications do have a
> means of applying alt text to images. I don't have the instructions on hand
> how to do this. You do not apply alt text to tables. Hence why you did not
> get a failure which is correct.
>
> This also applies to Google Docs. If they have not built in the ability of
> applying alt tags to images, then it is responsibility of Google to fix
> this.
>
> Sean
>
>
> Sean Murphy | Accessibility expert/lead
> Digital Accessibility manager
> Telstra Digital Channels | Digital Systems
> Mobile: 0405 129 739 | Desk: (02) 9866-7917
>
> www.telstra.com
>
> This email may contain confidential information.
> If I've sent it to you by accident, please delete it immediately
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Khaleel Eksheir
> Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2020 6:21 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Table Accessibility
>
> [External Email] This email was sent from outside the organisation â be
> cautious, particularly with links and attachments.
>
> Hello,
>
> A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to Tables. Would a
> table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text?
>
> I'm asking because I noticed that the latest update for PowerPoint doesn't
> show Alt Text for a table, and it's not showing as an accessibility error.
> Also, I checked Google Docs and the HTML editor in Canvas and both don't
> have the option of Alt Text.
>
> Would it be reasonable to say that adding a caption above the table
> replaces Alt Text?
>
> Your feedback would help with understanding table accessibility.
>
> Thank you,
> Khaleel
>
> Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist UNC Charlotte |
> Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
> 9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
> Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395 = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = |
> Free/Busy Calendar <
> https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York
> >
> | http://www.ds.uncc.edu
>
> [image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
> responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
> copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
> transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
> in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at
> 704-687-0042. Thank you
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
> > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
From: Khaleel Eksheir
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 8:57AM
Subject: Re: [External Sender]Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello,
Thanks all for the feedback. My question was about PowerPoint specifically.
It used to allow Alt Text for tables. That is why I used to recommend it.
But as a result of this threat, I learned that MS is phasing out Alt Text
for tables which makes sense.
Thank you so much. I highly appreciate it.
Khaleel
Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist
UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Free/Busy Calendar
<https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York>
| http://www.ds.uncc.edu
[image: ASPIRE Graduate Badge]
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone at
704-687-0042. Thank you
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:17 AM Graham Armfield <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> As a suggestion, if a table benefits from some kind of description or
> 'alternate text' then it's probably best to use the <caption> element.
>
> From previous testing (admittedly some time ago) the <caption> element
> should be the first child of the <table> element or some screen readers
> won't voice it.
>
> The <caption> element can be styled using CSS if required.
>
> Many browsers/screen readers still support the summary attribute on the
> <table> element, but this attribute was deprecated some years ago, so is
> not recommended for future use.
>
> Regards
> Graham Armfield
>
> coolfields.co.uk <http://www.coolfields.co.uk/>;
> M:07905 590026
> T: 01483 856613
> @coolfields <https://twitter.com/coolfields>
>
>
> Khaleel asked " A quick question related to adding Alternative Text to
>
> > Tables. Would a table be inaccessible if it lacks Alt Text? "
> >
> >
> >
> > > > >
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Tue, Jun 09 2020 3:31PM
Subject: Re: [External Sender]Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
On 2020-06-09 10:57, Khaleel Eksheir wrote:
> Thanks all for the feedback. My question was about PowerPoint specifically.
> It used to allow Alt Text for tables. That is why I used to recommend it.
> But as a result of this threat, I learned that MS is phasing out Alt Text
> for tables which makes sense.
Just a quick clarification here, to make sure I haven't missed something.
The ability to add alt text to tables in Microsoft PowerPoint has not
changed, has it? I can add alternative text to a table in PowerPoint
today in my up-to-date version of Office 365 for Windows. I am not aware
of a plan to phase out that feature.
But the recommended best practice in PowerPoint has been moving away
from adding a summary to the alternative text property of a table. And
the built-in PowerPoint accessibility checker does not add a warning or
error for tables that have no alternative text or summary.
My impression is that there may still be some cases and some PowerPoint
documents where alternative text summaries of a table are useful - it
depends on the intended audience and purpose.
For me, the question of whether or not an alternative text table summary
is useful in an Office document relates to the question of whether an
Office document actually provides a robust mechanism for assistive
technology users to then use the data within a table. My impression
that Microsoft Office is not currently capable of providing good
navigation and access to all users in the case of a complex table, such
as those with multiple spanned headers, or even just a table with both
header columns and rows. And it is partly for this reason that the use
of table summaries in PowerPoint and Word has gradually fallen out of
favour.
A simple table should be understandable to assistive technology users
without requiring additional explanation. Office allows you to mark the
header row, and that's all you really need. A table that is so complex
that it requires a summary to explain its structure will not actually be
usable by some assistive technology users - those tables would be better
placed in HTML or PDF document formats (both of which can handle complex
tables) instead of placing that data in PowerPoint or Word.
Sometimes, I have read that table summaries in Office documents should
explain the purpose of the table, rather than describing its data
structure. This is similar to the function of a table caption in some
file formats. But I think it is generally accepted now that such
"caption" type of information should be made visible to all users,
rather than placing it as alternative text, where only screen reader
users would access it.
I'm not sure if this jibes with what everyone has already said, but
that's my understanding of alternative text for tables in Office
documents these days.
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Jun 10 2020 8:58AM
Subject: Re: [External Sender]Table Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →
To my knowledge this will be phased out by Microsoft although I don't have a specific date. Also to my knowledge, none of the screen readers or Text-to-Speech tools supported this and it wasn't converted to anything if the document/presentation was converted to tagged PDF. It is also no longer part of the accessibility checker.
My understanding is that it was sort of like the Title and Description in the Alt Text pane/dialog...an attempt to harmonize with HTML that didn't quite work.
Cheers, Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 5:32 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [External Sender] Re: Table Accessibility
On 2020-06-09 10:57, Khaleel Eksheir wrote:
> Thanks all for the feedback. My question was about PowerPoint specifically.
> It used to allow Alt Text for tables. That is why I used to recommend it.
> But as a result of this threat, I learned that MS is phasing out Alt
> Text for tables which makes sense.
Just a quick clarification here, to make sure I haven't missed something.
The ability to add alt text to tables in Microsoft PowerPoint has not changed, has it? I can add alternative text to a table in PowerPoint today in my up-to-date version of Office 365 for Windows. I am not aware of a plan to phase out that feature.
But the recommended best practice in PowerPoint has been moving away from adding a summary to the alternative text property of a table. And the built-in PowerPoint accessibility checker does not add a warning or error for tables that have no alternative text or summary.
My impression is that there may still be some cases and some PowerPoint documents where alternative text summaries of a table are useful - it depends on the intended audience and purpose.
For me, the question of whether or not an alternative text table summary is useful in an Office document relates to the question of whether an Office document actually provides a robust mechanism for assistive technology users to then use the data within a table. My impression that Microsoft Office is not currently capable of providing good navigation and access to all users in the case of a complex table, such as those with multiple spanned headers, or even just a table with both header columns and rows. And it is partly for this reason that the use of table summaries in PowerPoint and Word has gradually fallen out of favour.
A simple table should be understandable to assistive technology users without requiring additional explanation. Office allows you to mark the header row, and that's all you really need. A table that is so complex that it requires a summary to explain its structure will not actually be usable by some assistive technology users - those tables would be better placed in HTML or PDF document formats (both of which can handle complex
tables) instead of placing that data in PowerPoint or Word.
Sometimes, I have read that table summaries in Office documents should explain the purpose of the table, rather than describing its data structure. This is similar to the function of a table caption in some file formats. But I think it is generally accepted now that such "caption" type of information should be made visible to all users, rather than placing it as alternative text, where only screen reader users would access it.
I'm not sure if this jibes with what everyone has already said, but that's my understanding of alternative text for tables in Office documents these days.
Phil.
Philip Kiff
D4K Communications
From: Philip Kiff
Date: Wed, Jun 10 2020 10:34AM
Subject: Re: [External Sender]Table Accessibility
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Thanks for the additional details and clarification, Karen!
On 2020-06-10 10:58, Karlen Communications wrote:
> To my knowledge this will be phased out by Microsoft although I don't have a specific date. Also to my knowledge, none of the screen readers or Text-to-Speech tools supported this and it wasn't converted to anything if the document/presentation was converted to tagged PDF. It is also no longer part of the accessibility checker.
>
> My understanding is that it was sort of like the Title and Description in the Alt Text pane/dialog...an attempt to harmonize with HTML that didn't quite work.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff
> Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 5:32 PM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [External Sender] Re: Table Accessibility
>
> On 2020-06-09 10:57, Khaleel Eksheir wrote:
>> Thanks all for the feedback. My question was about PowerPoint specifically.
>> It used to allow Alt Text for tables. That is why I used to recommend it.
>> But as a result of this threat, I learned that MS is phasing out Alt
>> Text for tables which makes sense.
> Just a quick clarification here, to make sure I haven't missed something.
>
> The ability to add alt text to tables in Microsoft PowerPoint has not changed, has it? I can add alternative text to a table in PowerPoint today in my up-to-date version of Office 365 for Windows. I am not aware of a plan to phase out that feature.
>
> But the recommended best practice in PowerPoint has been moving away from adding a summary to the alternative text property of a table. And the built-in PowerPoint accessibility checker does not add a warning or error for tables that have no alternative text or summary.
>
> My impression is that there may still be some cases and some PowerPoint documents where alternative text summaries of a table are useful - it depends on the intended audience and purpose.
>
> For me, the question of whether or not an alternative text table summary is useful in an Office document relates to the question of whether an Office document actually provides a robust mechanism for assistive technology users to then use the data within a table. My impression that Microsoft Office is not currently capable of providing good navigation and access to all users in the case of a complex table, such as those with multiple spanned headers, or even just a table with both header columns and rows. And it is partly for this reason that the use of table summaries in PowerPoint and Word has gradually fallen out of favour.
>
> A simple table should be understandable to assistive technology users without requiring additional explanation. Office allows you to mark the header row, and that's all you really need. A table that is so complex that it requires a summary to explain its structure will not actually be usable by some assistive technology users - those tables would be better placed in HTML or PDF document formats (both of which can handle complex
> tables) instead of placing that data in PowerPoint or Word.
>
> Sometimes, I have read that table summaries in Office documents should explain the purpose of the table, rather than describing its data structure. This is similar to the function of a table caption in some file formats. But I think it is generally accepted now that such "caption" type of information should be made visible to all users, rather than placing it as alternative text, where only screen reader users would access it.
>
> I'm not sure if this jibes with what everyone has already said, but that's my understanding of alternative text for tables in Office documents these days.
>
> Phil.
>
> Philip Kiff
> D4K Communications
>
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