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Thread: Short cut keys
Number of posts in this thread: 20 (In chronological order)
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 9:40AM
Subject: Short cut keys
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As a JAWS and NVDA user, I've always used control + home to get to the top of a page in Browsers. I also thought that keystroke also worked outside of Assistive Technology.
That assumption apparently is not true. So, I've been looking on different sites for consistent keystrokes to get to the top of the page. What am I missing?
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
HYPERLINK "mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 9:49AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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The 'home' key has always worked well for me (outside of AT). I thought when I tested with VO the home key worked as well.
Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
University Communications and Marketing
West Chester University
610.738.0589
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:40 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Short cut keys
As a JAWS and NVDA user, I've always used control + home to get to the top of a page in Browsers. I also thought that keystroke also worked outside of Assistive Technology.
That assumption apparently is not true. So, I've been looking on different sites for consistent keystrokes to get to the top of the page. What am I missing?
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
HYPERLINK "mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 9:52AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Thank you, what troubles me is that I'm being told that it no longer works that way in Browsers.
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Swift, Daniel P.
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 9:55AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Hmmm - I just tried in FF, Chrome, IE11, and Edge and 'home' works as I would expect ('end' as well).
Dan Swift
Senior Web Specialist
University Communications and Marketing
West Chester University
610.738.0589
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Don Mauck
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:52 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Short cut keys
Thank you, what troubles me is that I'm being told that it no longer works that way in Browsers.
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 10:00AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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The Home and End keys scroll the page to the top and bottom, but the focus does not move. They are therefore of limited use to people using keyboard navigation.
Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 10:05AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Thanks, I'm confused as to what to tell my colleges.
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Don Mauck
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 10:03AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Is there a solution? I take it that the Control + home doesn't work either.
Regards:
Don Mauck | Senior Accessibility Evangelist | Accessibility Program Office | (APO)
303.334.4184
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 10:25AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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I am not aware of any keyboard shortcuts that move the focus to the top or bottom of the page, although Alt+D moves the focus to the Address Bar. From there it's easy to get to the top or bottom of the page.
Steve
From: Don Raikes
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 12:53PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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According to the google chrome support pageat :
https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en
Goto the top of the page the keystroke is <home> but that doesn't seem to work unless it is just setting the visual focus and not the actual keyboard focus point.
From: Mallory
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 2:18PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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I regularly use the address bar trick to bring my focus back to the top (although I don't use alt+D, I use ctrl+L), and have for years. This is the only way I know to get my focus back to the top, especially on pages like DuckDuckGo search where I am sometimes unable to scroll the page all the way back to the top with the UpArrow key.
I jump to the bottom by first jumping to the top and then Shift+Tabbing.
cheers,
_mallory
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, at 8:53 PM, Don Raikes wrote:
> According to the google chrome support pageat :
> https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en
>
> Goto the top of the page the keystroke is <home> but that doesn't
> seem to work unless it is just setting the visual focus and not the
> actual keyboard focus point.
>
>
From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 2:54PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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So sighted keyboard only users can't use control+home and control+end to get
to the top and bottom of a page in a browser?
That blows my mind (as a blind screen reader user for the past 20 years).
Does there need to be more advocacy for keyboard only users?
Thanks,
David
From: glen walker
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 3:04PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Home/end or ctrl+home/end have always worked for me. As noted earlier, it
scrolls the page but does not move the keyboard focus, but I don't consider
that a big deal (for me). If I need my focus moved to the first or last
element on the page, I can easily get there by going to the address bar
(which has a shortcut key) then either tabbing forwards or backwards
depending if I want my focus at the top or bottom of the page, respectively.
For sighted keyboard users, you have to think about what it means to go to
the top or bottom of the page. Visually, it's easy to scroll the page to
the top or bottom, but if you want your focus moved, for keyboard users, it
should move the first or last *focusable* element and not just the first or
last DOM element. For screen reader users, moving to the top of the page
puts the screen reader focus on the first DOM element, which makes sense.
For keyboard users, putting the focus on the first DOM element, if it's not
an interactive element, does not make sense.
From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 5:14PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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I think I'm missing something here as a native screen reader user.
Control+home and control+end always bring me to the first and last elements
on the page, respectively (at very least the first and last items in the
DOM).
Is there a way for a native screen reader user to emulate the experience of
a keyboard only user that doesn't use assistive technology?
I'd like to know what a keyboard only user experiences but I can't do much
without my screen reader activated since I'm blind and rely on the screen
reader to tell me where I am and what I'm navigating.
Am I making any sense? I don't want to clog up the list with questions that
aren't relevant to the mission of the list, or the intent of the initial
question.
I've always considered myself a keyboard only user since, with a screen
reader, I use only the keyboard to navigate. I haven't used a mouse in 20
years.
Thanks for all thoughts. I appreciate your feedback.
David
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 5:17PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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As an aside, one trick I use with the keyboard to move focus is to search for something on screen where I want to focus -- then when it's highlighted I press escape to close the find dialog and I can tab from there.
Related to the discussion with home and end - I have found that on the Mac in various apps like Word, Pages, Safari, and Chrome the commands to move to top and bottom of the documents are a little inconsistent as some use the Mac commands while others use Window equivalents.
Jonathan
From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 5:29PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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> Is there a way for a native screen reader user to emulate the experience of a keyboard only user that doesn't use assistive technology?
You can use the pass through keystroke in your screen reader to send the key through and then continue from there. However, if the only change is visual scrolling then when you continue navigation with the browse cursor you will not likely notice any difference as home/end will only scroll the screen visually and make no impact to screen reader users. If you are using JAWS you would be able to turn on the JAWS cursor to read the text on-screen to see if it's changed as this will reflect what is visible on the screen and not in the virtual buffer.
Jonathan
From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Fri, Jul 17 2020 8:36PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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So, no is the answer. A native screen reader user has to default to screen
reader fidgeting in order to have an equivalent experience to the keyboard
only user, right?
Basically: There is no way to directly emulate the user experience of a
keyboard only user if you are using a screen reader.
It's fine... just frustrating sometimes, ya know? Screen readers can add
complexities into the equation of w3 compliant web access. I haven't found a
way to check color contrast as efficiently as my sighted peers. I haven't
found a way to efficiently inspect controls in the multiple browsers I use.
I can do lots of things efficiently with a screen reader but empathizing
with folks who have perceptual abilities that require different modes of
perception are often, simply, frustrating.
Best,
David
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Jul 18 2020 3:03AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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On 17/07/2020 16:40, Don Mauck wrote:
> As a JAWS and NVDA user, I've always used control + home to get to the top of a page in Browsers. I also thought that keystroke also worked outside of Assistive Technology.
>
> That assumption apparently is not true. So, I've been looking on different sites for consistent keystrokes to get to the top of the page. What am I missing?
Coming in late on this, but... I pondered this a while ago too.
https://twitter.com/patrick_h_lauke/status/1237817919092019201
Feels like it's worth making feature requests to browsers about it.
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sat, Jul 18 2020 5:24AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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Enabling passthrough keys (Jaws or NVDA key + z) does create a pretty
good resemblence of
You often need to test it to test keyboard activation (because a
screen reader in browse mode sends a simulated click event to an
element, so a screen reader user could activate it even if a keyboard
only could not, conversely, an element with only keyboard activation
listener is not triggerable in browse mode, because the screen reader
sends a click event, this can make a huge difference with some custom
elements, I was auditing an application full of them yesterday).
On 7/18/20, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> On 17/07/2020 16:40, Don Mauck wrote:
>> As a JAWS and NVDA user, I've always used control + home to get to the top
>> of a page in Browsers. I also thought that keystroke also worked outside
>> of Assistive Technology.
>>
>> That assumption apparently is not true. So, I've been looking on different
>> sites for consistent keystrokes to get to the top of the page. What am I
>> missing?
>
>
> Coming in late on this, but... I pondered this a while ago too.
>
> https://twitter.com/patrick_h_lauke/status/1237817919092019201
>
> Feels like it's worth making feature requests to browsers about it.
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Mallory
Date: Sun, Jul 19 2020 9:22AM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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I would think manually going into application/focus mode would pretty much do that. That passes all keystrokes to the browser, no?
Which is what happens for a keyboard user by default.
cheers,
_mallory
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, at 4:36 AM, David Engebretson Jr. wrote:
> So, no is the answer. A native screen reader user has to default to screen
> reader fidgeting in order to have an equivalent experience to the keyboard
> only user, right?
>
> Basically: There is no way to directly emulate the user experience of a
> keyboard only user if you are using a screen reader.
>
> It's fine... just frustrating sometimes, ya know? Screen readers can add
> complexities into the equation of w3 compliant web access. I haven't found a
> way to check color contrast as efficiently as my sighted peers. I haven't
> found a way to efficiently inspect controls in the multiple browsers I use.
> I can do lots of things efficiently with a screen reader but empathizing
> with folks who have perceptual abilities that require different modes of
> perception are often, simply, frustrating.
>
> Best,
> David
From: David Engebretson Jr.
Date: Sun, Jul 19 2020 2:37PM
Subject: Re: Short cut keys
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That's always been my assumption...
Thanks.