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Thread: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?

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From: Mike Warner
Date: Mon, Oct 26 2020 8:13AM
Subject: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?
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Hi all!

we're developing material that shows the relationship between nouns or
pronouns and their antecedent in a previous sentence. A simple example
would be, "Mike threw the ball. Mary caught it." I've been trying to
think of an accessible way to show the connection between "ball" and "it"
that won't add to the cognitive load. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Mike

Mike Warner
Director of IT Services
MindEdge, Inc.

From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Mon, Oct 26 2020 12:44PM
Subject: Re: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?
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What do you think about this:

<p> In the following paragraph pronouns with disambiguating descriptions are marked by a * . Use Tab to access the pronoun description. </p>

<p>John threw <span id="ball_id">the ball</span> to Mary, and Bill caught <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *" aria-describedby="ball_id">it *</span></p>

<p>Mary threw <span id="rock_id">the rock</span> at John, and John caught <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *" aria-describedby="rock_id">it *</span></p>


I know it’s a piece of gross hackery and a pain to create and maintain, also bad in that a span is made focusable without any real action... BUT it sort of works. If you don’t want to hear the pronoun disambiguations you just ignore the stars. Otherwise hit Tab.

I guess it would depend on how many occurrences in the document you’d be coding this way, who the audience is, and so on.

A

>> On Oct 26, 2020, at 10:13, Mike Warner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> we're developing material that shows the relationship between nouns or
> pronouns and their antecedent in a previous sentence. A simple example
> would be, "Mike threw the ball. Mary caught it." I've been trying to
> think of an accessible way to show the connection between "ball" and "it"
> that won't add to the cognitive load. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
> Mike
>
> Mike Warner
> Director of IT Services
> MindEdge, Inc.

From: glen walker
Date: Mon, Oct 26 2020 3:24PM
Subject: Re: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?
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Interesting idea, but as Alan said, having a non-interactive element
receive focus can cause confusion.

Also, aria-describedby on a non-semantic element (span) is generally not
supported. See the second last bullet point on
https://www.w3.org/TR/using-aria/#label-support

How are you trying to show this relationship visually?


On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:45 PM Alan Zaitchik < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

>
> What do you think about this:
>
> <p> In the following paragraph pronouns with disambiguating descriptions
> are marked by a * . Use Tab to access the pronoun description. </p>
>
> <p>John threw <span id="ball_id">the ball</span> to Mary, and Bill caught
> <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *"
> aria-describedby="ball_id">it *</span></p>
>
> <p>Mary threw <span id="rock_id">the rock</span> at John, and John caught
> <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *"
> aria-describedby="rock_id">it *</span></p>
>
>
> I know it’s a piece of gross hackery and a pain to create and maintain,
> also bad in that a span is made focusable without any real action... BUT it
> sort of works. If you don’t want to hear the pronoun disambiguations you
> just ignore the stars. Otherwise hit Tab.
>
> I guess it would depend on how many occurrences in the document you’d be
> coding this way, who the audience is, and so on.
>
> A
>
> >> On Oct 26, 2020, at 10:13, Mike Warner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > we're developing material that shows the relationship between nouns or
> > pronouns and their antecedent in a previous sentence. A simple example
> > would be, "Mike threw the ball. Mary caught it." I've been trying to
> > think of an accessible way to show the connection between "ball" and "it"
> > that won't add to the cognitive load. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Warner
> > Director of IT Services
> > MindEdge, Inc.
> > > > >

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Mon, Oct 26 2020 4:39PM
Subject: Re: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?
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I wonder if you could use a toggle tip ...

https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2016/01/simple-standalone-toggletip-widget-pattern/

--
Sandy
sandyfeldman.com



On 2020-10-26 5:24 p.m., glen walker wrote:
> Interesting idea, but as Alan said, having a non-interactive element
> receive focus can cause confusion.
>
> Also, aria-describedby on a non-semantic element (span) is generally not
> supported. See the second last bullet point on
> https://www.w3.org/TR/using-aria/#label-support
>
> How are you trying to show this relationship visually?
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 12:45 PM Alan Zaitchik < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> What do you think about this:
>>
>> <p> In the following paragraph pronouns with disambiguating descriptions
>> are marked by a * . Use Tab to access the pronoun description. </p>
>>
>> <p>John threw <span id="ball_id">the ball</span> to Mary, and Bill caught
>> <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *"
>> aria-describedby="ball_id">it *</span></p>
>>
>> <p>Mary threw <span id="rock_id">the rock</span> at John, and John caught
>> <span tabindex="0" href="javascript:;" aria-label="it *"
>> aria-describedby="rock_id">it *</span></p>
>>
>>
>> I know it’s a piece of gross hackery and a pain to create and maintain,
>> also bad in that a span is made focusable without any real action... BUT it
>> sort of works. If you don’t want to hear the pronoun disambiguations you
>> just ignore the stars. Otherwise hit Tab.
>>
>> I guess it would depend on how many occurrences in the document you’d be
>> coding this way, who the audience is, and so on.
>>
>> A
>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2020, at 10:13, Mike Warner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> we're developing material that shows the relationship between nouns or
>>> pronouns and their antecedent in a previous sentence. A simple example
>>> would be, "Mike threw the ball. Mary caught it." I've been trying to
>>> think of an accessible way to show the connection between "ball" and "it"
>>> that won't add to the cognitive load. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Mike Warner
>>> Director of IT Services
>>> MindEdge, Inc.
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > >

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Mon, Oct 26 2020 5:15PM
Subject: Re: accessibly way to show connection between a noun or pronoun and its antecedent?
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On 26/10/2020 14:13, Mike Warner wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> we're developing material that shows the relationship between nouns or
> pronouns and their antecedent in a previous sentence. A simple example
> would be, "Mike threw the ball. Mary caught it." I've been trying to
> think of an accessible way to show the connection between "ball" and "it"
> that won't add to the cognitive load. Any suggestions?


Maybe, without overthinking it too much, simply doing some form of
visual highlighting (a border, background, or similar) on the sentences
themselves, and having a following paragraph explaining the relationship
in words ("<q>it</q> in the second sentence is the pronoun for
<q>ball</q>") - maybe visually styled slightly smaller (but still nicely
legible). That would make it accessible to pretty much anybody?

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
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twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke