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Re: PDF accessibility


From: Geof Collis
Date: Feb 12, 2010 9:45AM

So what is the yardstick for whether or not an image is decorative or
and artifact? Is it the same as in web pages?

In the document I provided I wouldn't consider this image to be
decorative so where is the line drawn?



At 10:23 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
>To expand on your second paragraph... I generally agree that
>tagging is a necessary condition for accessibility, but I'd make a
>small modification to say that for all but the simplest of documents
>tagging is a necessary condition for accessibility.
>Since Reader does do tagging automatically for untagged documents,
>if you have a very simple document containing just a few paragraphs
>of plain text (I'm not suggesting that PDF is the best format for
>this, just that people do this) then the tags that Reader
>automatically generates will be sufficient. If you have additional
>structure in the document such as headings, lists, or tables then it
>is less likely that the tagging heuristic will be sufficient without
>further author input, and if you have images that need equivalents
>then you certainly won't get that in the auto-tagging process.
>I completely agree that to be certain that authors should provide
>tagging. I'm raising this point because I often hear people say
>that without tags a PDF document is completely inaccessible and this
>is not completely accurate. Few untagged documents will be
>completely accessible, but similarly few untagged documents will be
>completely inaccessible. I've seen few cases where an untagged PDF
>is less accessible to screen reader than a plain text alternative
>that people often request and usually the PDF offers more access
>features for screen reader users.
>Andrew Kirkpatrick
>Senior Product Manager, Accessibility
>Adobe Systems
>-----Original Message-----
>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Monir ElRayes
>Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:20 AM
>To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF accessibility
>Just to clarify the importance of tagging- it is a necessary condition for
>accessibility (i.e. untagged documents are inaccessible as screen readers
>use the tags to navigate the structure of the document) but not a sufficient
>one (i.e. tagged documents can still be inaccessible if the tagging is not
>applied correctly -which is quite common- or if some of the other conditions
>for accessibility are not met).
>When you use the "Add Tags to Document" command in Acrobat, Acrobat will try
>to figure out how to structure the tagging for the document. It often
>succeeds with simple (linear text) documents but will typically require
>additional work to place the tags correctly for more "complex" documents.
>Best Regards,
>Monir ElRayes
>NetCentric Technologies
>-----Original Message-----
>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Priti Rohra
>Sent: February-12-10 7:39 AM
>To: WebAIM Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF accessibility
>Hi Geof,
>Marking the background image of the PDF file in question as an "Artifact" is
>similar to specifying an empty alternate text for decorative image on web
>page. This will inform the screen reader to skip it and read the textual
>With regards to the level of accessibility of the file is concerned, it is
>an untagged PDF document--meaning information is not tagged using
>appropriate tags, such as headings, lists, paragraphs etc so the screen
>reader is identifying the same as a graphic. The screen reader may or may
>not read the information correctly i.e. in the right order, as headings, a
>list item or even a link.
>Hope this makes it clear for you.
>Thanks & Regards,
>Priti Rohra
>Senior Accessibility Consultant
>Net Systems Informatics (India) Pvt. Ltd.
>Web: www.n-syst.com|www.barrierbreak.com
>Blog: www.barrierbreak.com/blog
>Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve
>trees on our planet.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Geof Collis" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 5:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] PDF accessibility
> > So no ltext needed then?
> >
> > What about its level of accessibility?
> >
> >
> > I'm hearing the word "graphic" before each item and it appears to be a
> > list.
> > At 06:36 AM 2/12/2010, you wrote:
> >>No, this is decorative and should be an Artifact.
> >>
> >>Cheers, Karen
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Geof Collis
> >>Sent: February-11-10 7:31 PM
> >>Subject: [WebAIM] PDF accessibility
> >>
> >>Hi All
> >>
> >>If a pdf has an image imbedded in the background and text on top does
> >>the image need to be described?
> >>
> >>Here is the pdf in question.
> >>http://www.torontorehab.com/research/documents/Scholarship-flyer.pdf
> >>
> >>Also is this pdf accessible?
> >>
> >>cheers
> >>
> >>Geof
> >>
> >>
> >>Editor
> >>Accessibility News
> >>www.accessibilitynews.ca
> >>Accessibility News International
> >>www.accessibilitynewsinternational.com
> >>