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Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: CSS content property and empty image alt values

for

From: steven
Date: Dec 10, 2010 8:39AM

Hi Dawn,

I was specifically wanting to place images into pages using the CSS content
property without actually placing them in the flow of the DOM (which to my
knowledge, is what screen readers read). That way, I could avoid using empty
alt images in the DOM, but was wondering if placing images into the design
using CSS content property would trigger similar behaviour in screen readers
as they would if using images in the DOM (such as alerting the user that
there is an image and reading out the alt text).

I know CSS background images are not read by screen readers, but wondered if
images placed using CSS content property would act differently to CSS
background images!? Being that they are placed into the page in a similar
way as DOM images as you can wrap text around them etc!? Hence my
attraction.

Steven


-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of
Dawn Budge
Sent: 10 December 2010 13:42
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] SPAM-LOW: Re: CSS content property and empty image alt
values

Generally yes, anything which is presentational belongs in the CSS. The
only time that becomes a problem is when you need to rely on the image
dimensions for anything and they are not predictable (e.g. CMS-generated
content), or you want content to flow around an image.
Are you trying to achieve a specific thing with using the content
property?

----------------------------------------
From: "steven" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: 10 December 2010 13:11
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WebAIM] CSS content property and empty image alt
values

Hi Chris,

Imagery to a visual person would generally not need explanation, if it is
purely presentational. Hence why I see the advantage of using CSS for
images
rather than images within the DOM, therefore voiding the need for such
images (and blank alt attributes) to be part of the actual content (in
cases
where images would not be content).

Diagrams would generally be regarded as content and should have alt text,
but I still think icons and banners etc generally are not content, so
wondered if screen readers would extend and honour the presentational
nature
of CSS to make presentational images feasible (after all, XML and HTML5
have
been unable to do this alone, despite being created to divide content from
form and function). I would also remove menus and hyperlinks from content
too if I had my way and introduce a separate browser/app method of
connecting and navigating content, but this continues to be overlooked
whilst browser developers and standards developers work separately.

Regards,

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Chris Hoffman
Sent: 09 December 2010 14:53
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] CSS content property and empty image alt values

Hi Steven,

According to a blog post from The Filament Group
(http://filamentgroup.com/lab/dingbat_webfonts_accessibility_issues/),
VoiceOver reads generated CSS content. The implication is that other
screenreaders generally do not.

I don't quite understand how that relates to presentational imagery,
though.
Could you explain?

Chris

On Dec 9, 2010, at 6:11 AM, "steven" wrote:

> Is anybody familiar with screen reader support (or intentional lack of
> support) for the CSS 'content' property?
>
> I ask because I know that images generated by HTML markup are known to
be
> read by screen readers, but I am thinking if CSS content itself is not
read,
> then there can often be cases where presentational imagery serves no
place
> in the HTML DOM and in such cases, would be better than serving images
with
> empty alt values.
>
> What are peoples thoughts and experience on this.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven
>
>