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Re: H1 to H4 titles sub titles....

for

From: Pollard, Larry W. (DRS)
Date: May 5, 2011 7:21AM

I try to let these questions run their course before responding and
please forgive me for any one that make not agree with this post. When
Sailesh responded with his post in regards to the technical standards do
not require headings. When S508 was written, browsers and AT did not
support heading
Navigation that was 100% correct, the fact of the matter is designers'
and developers and mind you not all of them but quite a few would prefer
not to bother with putting in proper Headings, Alt Text, Tags and such,
because they are in a hurry to throw content out there and are not
concerned with Accessibility or Usability. Most of the folks I have had
the pleasure of talking with on the WebAIM Blog are concerned about this
and try to design for Accessibility and Usability. Even if it's not the
law it is the right thing to by adding the proper Headings, Alt Text,
Tags is that what it's all about. Thank you and have a great day.

Larry. Pollard
Accessibility Webmaster
Department of Rehabilitative Services

-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Hoffman,
Allen
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 4:39 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] H1 to H4 titles sub titles....

My difficulty with full use of comparable in a technical testing context
is that it can mean so many things to so many people.

While I can concur that by using headings someone using some AT products
can navigate on that basis, the question is, is that a function of the
page, or a presentation style. I don't believe most site developers
would connect their use of heading styles to navigation, but would
understand the visual appeal. This would be an item which can be
considered a potential testable step for 1194.31(a), as you cite, if
header navigation is considered part of the actual page navigation in
general. I don't believe headers are required for skipping repetitive
navigation or content, but might be accepted as one success technique
for that.

Sigh.
If you throw five IT accessibility people one a single page you get ten
accessibility answers! <smile>.

Excellent evaluation discussion.





-----Original Message-----
From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:54 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] H1 to H4 titles sub titles....

Allen,
Right, the technical standards do not require headings.
When S508 was written, browsers and AT did not support heading
navigation. But this has changed since.
The objective of the law is to provide "comparable access" to PWD.
Now 1194.31 (A) says "At least one mode of operation and information
retrieval that does not require user vision shall be provided, or
support for assistive technology used by people who are blind or
visually impaired shall be provided".
When the page uses text / image-text styled as headers, marking them
up with h-tags will allow comparable access to headers without
requiring blind users to read complete page using an info retrieval
feature supported by AT today that was not available in 2000-01. This
is a functional outcome.

The Access Board guide says "...a recognition that future technologies
may be developed, or existing technologies could be used in a
particular way, that could provide the same functional access in ways
not envisioned by these standards. In
evaluating whether a technology results in "substantially equivalent
or greater access," it is the functional outcome, not the form, which
is important".
I think the spirit and intent of the law are guiding factors- really
important during implementing any law.
So heading markup is required only when the page uses text /
image-text styled as headers.
Sailesh


On 5/3/11, Hoffman, Allen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I'd only add that inconsistent or senseless header change will affect
> different users of screen readers in different ways, there really is
no
> "correct" answer. It wouldn't rise to a 508 technical failure in
> general, unless it really makes a page absolutely un-navigable, or
would
> require such user memory to make reliance on the headers for
navigation
> pointless.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeevan Reddy [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:53 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] H1 to H4 titles sub titles....
>
> Hi Nancy,
> Find out wether that H4 is used for Content or template.
> if it is used for template elements, it's not a big worry. if not,
it'll
> be
> a a problem for screen reader users.
> Follow the below Standards for using H1-H6:
> 1 Use H1 or H2 For different sections in the content.
> 2 Use H3 or H4 as nested headings for different sections of content.
> 3 Don't skip the headings more than one order. That is if you used H2
> then
> use H3 or H4 as nested headings, not to use H5 or H6.
> 4 Follow the consistancy across the web site, you can use H1 as
content
> header, in other pages you can use H2 or at max H3, but not H4.
> 5 use H4, H5, and H6 for other than content sections. i.e for template
> elements.
>
> As your title suggests, it is not violation as per Section 508 is
> concerned,
> but it is certainly a problem for screen reader users.
>
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Nancy Johnson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We are producing a site and part of my job is to see if the htmls and
>> frontend javascript jquery the design company provided is 508.
>>
>> The heading on one page goes from an H1 designation to an H4
> designation,
>>
>> Will this be a problem for screen readers?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Nancy
>>