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Re: H1 to H4 titles sub titles....


From: Nancy Johnson
Date: May 5, 2011 11:24AM

Thank you for this thread...It has been intersting reading through
all of your thoughts
For the purpoe of this page in question:
Dyanmically, each page has one h1, as the h1 is dyanmically used in
navigation and <title>.....</title>
But I will change the h4's to h2's...

So will be 1- h1 tag,, 3-h2 tags, nested in the last h2 will be a
number of h3 tags..


On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Sailesh Panchang
< <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Allen,
> I too do not consider requiring headings simply as a method of
> skipping repetitive content (H69 of WCAG 2 techniques). Headings are
> meant to expose structure and hierarchy within a section of content
> and they are just that. Heading navigation is a feature of  assistive
> technology by which users are able to perceive thstructure that most
> users can do visually. (Developers need not be aware of how headings
> are used by different groups of users... they simply need to use
> headings as conceptualized and set out in the HTML specs). This AT
> feature _incidentally_ helps users skip to main content  / skip
> navigation blocks if the document is marked up well thereby satisfying
> SC 2.4.1 of WCAG2 or Para (o) of S508.
> Thanks,
> Sailesh Panchang
> www.deque.com
> On 5/4/11, Hoffman, Allen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> My difficulty with full use of comparable in a technical testing context
>> is that it can mean so many things to so many people.
>> While I can concur that by using headings someone using some AT products
>> can navigate on that basis, the question is, is that a function of the
>> page, or a presentation style.  I don't believe most site developers
>> would connect their use of heading styles to navigation, but would
>> understand the visual appeal.  This would be an item which can be
>> considered a potential testable step for 1194.31(a), as you cite, if
>> header navigation is considered part of the actual page navigation in
>> general.  I don't believe headers are required for skipping repetitive
>> navigation or content, but might be accepted as one success technique
>> for that.
>> Sigh.
>> If you throw five IT accessibility people one a single page you get ten
>> accessibility answers!  <smile>.
>> Excellent evaluation discussion.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 4:54 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] H1 to H4 titles sub titles....
>> Allen,
>> Right, the technical standards do not require headings.
>> When S508 was written, browsers and AT did not  support heading
>> navigation.  But this has changed since.
>> The objective of the law is to provide "comparable access" to PWD.
>> Now 1194.31 (A) says "At least one mode of operation and information
>> retrieval that does not require user vision shall be provided, or
>> support for assistive technology used by people who are blind or
>> visually impaired shall be provided".
>> When the page uses text / image-text styled as headers, marking them
>> up with h-tags will allow comparable access  to  headers without
>> requiring blind users to read complete page using an info retrieval
>> feature supported by AT today that was not available in 2000-01. This
>> is a functional outcome.
>> The Access Board guide says "...a recognition that future technologies
>> may be developed, or existing technologies could be used in a
>> particular way, that could provide the same functional access in ways
>> not envisioned by these standards. In
>> evaluating whether a technology results in "substantially equivalent
>> or greater access," it is the functional outcome, not the form, which
>> is important".
>> I think the spirit and  intent of the law are guiding factors- really
>> important during implementing any law.
>> So heading markup is required only when the page uses text /
>> image-text styled as headers.
>>  Sailesh
>> On 5/3/11, Hoffman, Allen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> I'd only add that inconsistent or senseless header change will affect
>>> different users of screen readers in different ways, there really is
>> no
>>> "correct" answer.  It wouldn't rise to a 508 technical failure in
>>> general, unless it really makes a page absolutely un-navigable, or
>> would
>>> require such user memory to make reliance on the headers for
>> navigation
>>> pointless.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jeevan Reddy [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:53 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] H1 to H4 titles sub titles....
>>> Hi Nancy,
>>> Find out wether that H4 is used for Content or template.
>>> if it is used for template elements, it's not a big worry. if not,
>> it'll
>>> be
>>> a a problem for screen reader users.
>>> Follow the below Standards for using H1-H6:
>>> 1 Use H1 or H2 For different sections in the content.
>>> 2 Use H3 or H4 as nested headings for different sections of content.
>>> 3 Don't skip the headings more than one order. That is if you used H2
>>> then
>>> use H3 or H4 as nested headings, not to use H5 or H6.
>>> 4 Follow the consistancy across the web site, you can use H1 as
>> content
>>> header, in other pages you can use H2 or at max H3, but not H4.
>>> 5 use H4, H5, and H6 for other than content sections. i.e for template
>>> elements.
>>> As your title suggests, it is not violation as per Section 508 is
>>> concerned,
>>> but it is certainly  a problem for screen reader users.
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Nancy Johnson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> We are producing a site and part of my job is to see if the htmls and
>>>> frontend javascript jquery the design company provided is 508.
>>>> The heading on one page goes from an H1 designation to an H4
>>> designation,
>>>> Will this be a problem for screen readers?
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> Nancy