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Re: Using Tables

for

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Feb 11, 2012 8:30PM

> Doing so is fairly easy with solutions such as html5shiv (http://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/).
Only problem with that is, more stuff to load. Pages often load tons
of scripts to make this little ajax box or whatever, loading a script
to get super cool features is again, a waste.

> the HTML5 elements that are being exposed by AT.  I guess it all depends on
> the environment, so your reasoning makes sense.  For me, HTML5 is just too
> fun to wait!
Check out Steve's work at http://html5accessibility.com/, far too many
html5 "features" have the not supported or not implemented mark to use
them, which is some of my reasoning as to why I say HTML5 is not
mature enough. If you say if we use them browsers will have to make
them work. Ok, while not the direct same, Google still has issues with
accessibility on all of their products and cannot produce valid code,
yet it has employees on almost all W3C WG.

--
Ryan E. Benson



On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Vincent Young < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Jumping on the band wagon before HTML5 is even a PR is just a little
>> preemptive for me. At work we are still on IE8, even boxes running
>> Win7, so doing HTML5 for example, is just a waste of time for now.
>
> Even if running on older systems, incorporating most HTML5 into your work
> now probably does more good than harm.  Doing so is fairly easy with
> solutions such as html5shiv (http://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/).  When
> you're ready to upgrade your systems, no hassle and users can begin to use
> the HTML5 elements that are being exposed by AT.  I guess it all depends on
> the environment, so your reasoning makes sense.  For me, HTML5 is just too
> fun to wait!
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>> > many aspects of HTML5 are here right now and being used so it makes sense
>> > take it into account.Part of the accessibility support problem is/has
>> been
>> > that what is in specs and what is supported are not always the same
>> thing.
>> > As accessibility practitioners we need to be mindful of this and provide
>> > best practise advice based on implementation realities.
>> Jumping on the band wagon before HTML5 is even a PR is just a little
>> preemptive for me. At work we are still on IE8, even boxes running
>> Win7, so doing HTML5 for example, is just a waste of time for now.
>> --
>> Ryan E. Benson
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:14 AM, Steve Faulkner
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> > Hi Ryan,
>> >  "I have ignored what HTML 5 says for the most part cause it isn't done,
>> > and kind of chuckle at it. I think people who are using it and writing
>> > books about it are doing it prematurely."
>> >
>> > many aspects of HTML5 are here right now and being used so it makes sense
>> > take it into account.Part of the accessibility support problem is/has
>> been
>> > that what is in specs and what is supported are not always the same
>> thing.
>> > As accessibility practitioners we need to be mindful of this and provide
>> > best practise advice based on implementation realities.
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > Stevef
>> >
>> > The summary attribute is not and has never been well supported across
>> > browsers and AT, so using it to provide important information, means it
>> is
>> > not available to some users who would benefit from the information.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11 February 2012 05:07, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have ignored what HTML 5 says for the most part cause it isn't done,
>> >> and kind of chuckle at it. I think people who are using it and writing
>> >> books about it are doing it prematurely.
>> >>
>> >> > Still, it doesn't make much sense to me to
>> >> > present the purpose to screen reader users only.
>> >> The flip side is why do screen readers allow you to jump between
>> >> tables? I think until you can tie a visual element (thinking a heading
>> >> here) to a table a summary is needed. Summaries are usually required
>> >> for where I work due to their nature, and couldn't really be broken
>> >> down effectively.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ryan E. Benson
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jared Smith < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Ryan E. Benson wrote:
>> >> >> What makes you say that Jared? The spec (html 4) says the exact
>> opposite
>> >> >
>> >> > I guess I misunderstood this, probably because when summary was still
>> >> > in HTML5 it was defined as for structure only. Still, it doesn't make
>> >> > much sense to me to present the purpose to screen reader users only.
>> >> >
>> >> > My point is that if a table is natively clear and accessible,
>> >> > providing a summary won't make it more accessible. And if it's not
>> >> > natively accessible, then it needs to be made accessible.
>> >> >
>> >> > Jared
>> >> >