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Re: Blank pages in PDFs

for

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Apr 16, 2013 12:51PM

These publications are designed specifically for print/visual layout. Copies
in the 10s of thousands so we're not talking about laser printers but
professional printing presses with exact technical requirements for the
press files.

A professionally design layout file is created in Adobe InDesign, and then a
web-quality accessible PDF is exported from the layout for posting to the
website, and another press-quality PDF is exported for the print shop.

Therefore, there's one set of InDesign layout files from which both the
press-quality PDF and the accessible web-quality PDF are made. This is the
standard workflow of the professional publishing industry, which designs
primarily for print/press and only recently has begun to accommodate
accessibility in the electronic versions of their publications.

Removing the blank pages between chapters and renumbering the PDF's won't
work:

1. The actual printed page numbers can't be changed once the book is
created. Tables of Content that say "Chapter 1, page 21" must really begin
on page 21, not some other "faux" page in the PDF. Same with the index at
the back of the book and any other generated list or cross reference
citation.

2. In the US Federal government, the standard is that the PDF must match the
hard printed version. Removing pages and renumbering the remaining pages
violates this standard.

3. Sure will confuse the heck out of people when one person is referring to
"Page 9" in the printed version and someone else sees a completely different
"Page 9" in the PDF.

4. And yes, removing pages will indeed botch things up for printing,
especially professional offset printing on a "real" printing press.

5. In printed books, chapters always begin on right-hand pages which have
odd numbers. Removing blank pages botches up this convention.

So my original question still stands: Are there any guidelines or best
practices for identifying these blank pages to screen reader users? Since
the blank pages can't be removed, what tactic would help screen reader users
understand that, for example, page 8 is blank?

From previous posters, it seems that placing text such as "this page left
intentionally blank" is probably the best solution.

-Bevi Chagnon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
New schedule for classes and workshops coming in 2013.


-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jonathan C. Cohn
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 9:14 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Blank pages in PDFs

How would that work with duplex printing.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 16, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Jonathan Metz < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> I'm just curious, but couldn't the issue of blank pages and page numbering
be solved by renumbering the pages in Acrobat? If you remove the blank page
4 so it skips from page 3 to 5, why not just start a new section starting at
page 5?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan Metz
>
> From: Pratik Patel < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Date: Friday, April 5, 2013 6:33 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Blank pages in PDFs
>
> Whenever possible, I advocate for less verbiage. In this case, the
> individual looking at the PDF file has the ability (or should have the
> ability) to query the metadata from Adobe Reader. This being the case,
> I do not recommend adding additional verbiage that indicates that the
> page is blank.
>
> Pratik Patel
> Founder and CEO, EZFire
> T: 718-928-5529
> M: 718-249-7019
> E: <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> > (or
> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >)
> Follow me on Twitter: @ppatel
> Follow me on LinkedIn:
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pratik-patel/9/985/882
> Skype: Patel.pratik
> From: Karlen Communications
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Date: Friday, April 5, 2013 6:25 AM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Blank pages in PDFs
>
> I think of blank pages as decorative images and really don't want to
> spend time hearing "page X, blank page" over and over again. I should
> be able to use Bookmarks, headings and a linked Table of Contents to
> get to content and use Ctrl + Shift + N in Acrobat to get to a specific
page.
>
> I appreciate that someone tagging a PDF has thought about this and
> decided to put blank pages as Artifacts.
>
> I do occasionally use screen magnification and having some vision is
> not a good enough argument to tag decorative content - which is what
> the insertion of a blank page is.
>
> Cheers, Karen
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:webaim-forum-bounces@list.
> webaim.org> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of
> Jennifer Sutton
> Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 5:15 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Blank pages in PDFs
>
> In my view, blank pages should be left in. What if I'm using this
> book for research, and I need to cite page numbers?
>
> Sometimes, I think that catering for AT can be taken to extremes. AT
> users should know how to read these files and expect potentially blank
> pages, just as these exist in printed, brailled, or other electronic
> books. If you have low vision users who are initially confused, then I
> would hope they have the AT strategies to unconfuse themselves by paging
down to see what comes next.
>
> Jennifer
>
> At 01:33 PM 4/4/2013, you wrote:
> What prompted my question was that when testing PDFs with blind and
> low-vision users, some page up/down by page. If I remember correctly,
> these were probably low-vision users.
>
> Navigating to, say, page 4 and not finding any text on it, would that
> be an impairment to the user?
> Would it cause confusion if the user's AT couldn't find any content on
> that page?
>
> -Bevi
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> -
> - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
> Accessibility.
> New schedule for classes and workshops coming in 2013.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:webaim-forum-bounces@list.
> webaim.org> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of
> Duff Johnson
>
> Bevi,
> I'm not aware of guidelines on this specific point. Zero content means
> zero content.
> PDF/UA is silent on this question. Fully blank (zero content) pages
> exist from an AT point of view only in the sense that they cause the
> PDF to be longer by a page. When such a page is displayed a user could
> query the PageLabel to find out (for example) that the blank page was
> the 4th of 18.
> This is notionally useful information - at least - it's equivalent
> information to that which is available to other users.
>
> On Apr 4, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Chagnon | PubCom
< <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> wrote:
>> We're processing some PDFs for a government client and the books have
>> blank pages between chapters. These are to force new chapters to
>> start on right-hand pages in the printed version.
>>
>> Is there any guideline or "best practice" for identifying these blank
>> pages to blind readers?
>