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Re: Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs

for

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Dec 13, 2013 9:35AM

Actually I had the same question yesterday, and got some confirmation about
this which I've pasted below. The attribute aria-haspopup should only be
used on menus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Scheuhammer" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled devices
(Windows)


> On 2013-12-12 2:09 PM, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
>> One concern I have is that hover can be used for many things, not just
>> for menus, and if devs start implementing aria-haspopup on all
>> elements that show hover activity, screen readers like JAWS and NVDA
>> will be announcing "Menu" and "Submenu" everywhere.
>
> Right. The spec states that aria-haspopup is for menus:
> " Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu."
>
> I goes on to say that tooltips are not considered popups; tooltips
> generally "pop up" on a mouse hover. That entails that aria-haspopup
> should not be used except to indicate that there is a menu associated
> with the current element.
>
> Is Microsoft applying aria-haspopup to *any* content that can be
> revealed on hover?
>
> --
> ;;;;joseph.
>
>
> 'A: After all, it isn't rocket science.'
> 'K: Right. It's merely computer science.'
> - J. D. Klaun -
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Faulkner" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs


> Hi Alastair,
>
> interesting,
>
> However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
> "The
>> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements that
>> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
>> misrepresent
>> the popup type to screen reader users." (from http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
>>
>
>
> the aria-haspopup state allows authors to set the MSAA
> STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP "When invoked, the object displays a pop-up menu or
> a
> window." [1]
>
> While the ARIA spec does define haspop more explicitly than MSAA, and is
> generally treated as an indication of the presence of a menu asscoiated
> with the control, it is not always treated as such. For example, using
> JAWS
> if a link has aria-haspopup it announces that the link "has pop up" rather
> than specifically stating menu/submenu which is the behaviour exhibited
> when present on controls and by other AT (not extensively tested).
> "Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu."
> [2]
>
> I have a page with some test cases which may be helpful [3].
>
> I would suggest that the expansion of the meaning of aria-haspopup should
> be specified (an issue for ARIA 1.1 [4]). I have sent an email to the PF
> list in this regard [5]
>
> [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd373609%28v=3dvs.85%29.aspx
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-haspopup
> [3] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/aria-haspopup.html
> [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/
> [5]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2013OctDec/0004.html
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
>
>
> On 13 December 2013 09:54, Alastair Campbell < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> I came across an interesting article from Microsoft about an approach
>> they
>> are taking, "Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled
>> devices":
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/jj152135%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
>>
>> At first glance has-popup appears to be a useful indicator that touch
>> devices could use to trigger the hover-interaction first, and then a
>> second
>> tap activates the control. It would appear to work from that point of
>> view,
>> for things like menus which have on-hover states.
>>
>> However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
>> "The
>> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements that
>> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
>> misrepresent
>> the popup type to screen reader users." (from http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
>>
>> Does anyone foresee problems with this method, in terms of encouraging
>> the
>> use of has-popup for non-accessibility reasons?
>>
>> On the other hand, perhaps it will mean lots more sites will use
>> has-popup,
>> at least somewhat appropriately...?
>>
>> -Alastair
>> >> >> >>
> > >