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Re: Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs

for

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Dec 13, 2013 9:48AM

Hi Bryan,

note the advice is not set in stone, and can be changed if use cases arise
as they appear to be.

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;


On 13 December 2013 16:35, Bryan Garaventa < <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:

> Actually I had the same question yesterday, and got some confirmation about
> this which I've pasted below. The attribute aria-haspopup should only be
> used on menus.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Scheuhammer" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled devices
> (Windows)
>
>
> > On 2013-12-12 2:09 PM, Bryan Garaventa wrote:
> >> One concern I have is that hover can be used for many things, not just
> >> for menus, and if devs start implementing aria-haspopup on all
> >> elements that show hover activity, screen readers like JAWS and NVDA
> >> will be announcing "Menu" and "Submenu" everywhere.
> >
> > Right. The spec states that aria-haspopup is for menus:
> > " Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu."
> >
> > I goes on to say that tooltips are not considered popups; tooltips
> > generally "pop up" on a mouse hover. That entails that aria-haspopup
> > should not be used except to indicate that there is a menu associated
> > with the current element.
> >
> > Is Microsoft applying aria-haspopup to *any* content that can be
> > revealed on hover?
> >
> > --
> > ;;;;joseph.
> >
> >
> > 'A: After all, it isn't rocket science.'
> > 'K: Right. It's merely computer science.'
> > - J. D. Klaun -
> >
> >
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Faulkner" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Using has-poppup to affect touch UIs
>
>
> > Hi Alastair,
> >
> > interesting,
> >
> > However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
> > "The
> >> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements that
> >> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
> >> misrepresent
> >> the popup type to screen reader users." (from http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
> >>
> >
> >
> > the aria-haspopup state allows authors to set the MSAA
> > STATE_SYSTEM_HASPOPUP "When invoked, the object displays a pop-up menu or
> > a
> > window." [1]
> >
> > While the ARIA spec does define haspop more explicitly than MSAA, and is
> > generally treated as an indication of the presence of a menu asscoiated
> > with the control, it is not always treated as such. For example, using
> > JAWS
> > if a link has aria-haspopup it announces that the link "has pop up"
> rather
> > than specifically stating menu/submenu which is the behaviour exhibited
> > when present on controls and by other AT (not extensively tested).
> > "Indicates that the element has a popup context menu or sub-level menu."
> > [2]
> >
> > I have a page with some test cases which may be helpful [3].
> >
> > I would suggest that the expansion of the meaning of aria-haspopup should
> > be specified (an issue for ARIA 1.1 [4]). I have sent an email to the PF
> > list in this regard [5]
> >
> > [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd373609%28v=3dvs.85%29.aspx
> > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-haspopup
> > [3] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/377471/aria-haspopup.html
> > [4] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-1.1/
> > [5]
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2013OctDec/0004.html
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > SteveF
> > HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>;
> >
> >
> > On 13 December 2013 09:54, Alastair Campbell < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> I came across an interesting article from Microsoft about an approach
> >> they
> >> are taking, "Using aria-haspopup to simulate hover on touch-enabled
> >> devices":
> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/jj152135%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
> >>
> >> At first glance has-popup appears to be a useful indicator that touch
> >> devices could use to trigger the hover-interaction first, and then a
> >> second
> >> tap activates the control. It would appear to work from that point of
> >> view,
> >> for things like menus which have on-hover states.
> >>
> >> However, I know Bryan has done some testing which prompted him to say:
> >> "The
> >> attribute aria-haspopup should only be used on triggering elements that
> >> open menus. Otherwise, the presence of the attribute will only
> >> misrepresent
> >> the popup type to screen reader users." (from http://whatsock.com/tsg/)
> >>
> >> Does anyone foresee problems with this method, in terms of encouraging
> >> the
> >> use of has-popup for non-accessibility reasons?
> >>
> >> On the other hand, perhaps it will mean lots more sites will use
> >> has-popup,
> >> at least somewhat appropriately...?
> >>
> >> -Alastair
> >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > >