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Re: complex layout tables

for

From: Karl Groves
Date: Jan 29, 2014 12:49PM

" force everybody in the world to use a certain style you like, e.g. a
coding style that's fresh, modern, elegant, …? "

Well, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Regardless, I'm not really
sure what's "fresh" and "modern" about using CSS to do layouts. CSS based
layouts have been possible since about IE5 or so though an argument could
be made that it wasn't until IE6 that you could reliably have
cross-platform CSS layouts. The many benefits for both users and developers
of using CSS layout instead of tables have been well documented over the
years and probably don't require reiterating here.


"What gives you the right to do so, or to bad-mouth styles you do not like?"
Freedom of expression? Its the same right you have, as a member of the
list, to disagree.

In this case though it bears mentioning that the "coding style" to which
we're both reviewing has been discouraged as a non-semantic use of tables
for more than a decade[1]. This is, in all senses of the term, a
quality-of-work issue and not merely a discussion of coding style. Coding
style discussions, IMO, are oriented around doing good work in a way that
makes it even better. In this case we're talking about bad work.


"I can't see why a style that is 'gross' hinders equal access."

Actually those other items you conveniently snipped are the ones where the
accessibility issues were listed.


1 - http://www.w3.org/2002/03/csslayout-howto





On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Olaf Drümmer < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> > "4. Tables-based layouts are gross and make me want to take a bath
> whenever I look at their markup."
>
> sometimes I wonder what the mission of some of you is:
>
> - force everybody in the world to use a certain style you like, e.g. a
> coding style that's fresh, modern, elegant, …? What gives you the right to
> do so, or to bad-mouth styles you do not like?
>
> or rather
>
> - make sure that stuff out there can be accessed by everyone in a
> reasonable fashion
>
>
> I can't see why a style that is 'gross' hinders equal access.
>
>
> And: from a stylistic point of view, I find a substantial portion of
> accessible web sites highly awful. While I think it's OK for me to have
> that opinion, it is nothing that would or should be discussed on this
> discussion list (so if you wish to discuss **this** get in touch with me
> privately ;-) ).
>
>
> Olaf
>
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829