WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: Data in tables or lists with accessibility and responsive design in mind


From: ron@ahead.org
Date: Feb 11, 2014 5:39PM

Okay one more reply, in all my attempts to get this unbiased info out over almost 20 years we have always
given a Vendor an opportunity to respond to the data we were wanting to discuss including all the
companies that have responded to this thread. None ever did, and in most instances without any response.
Now today these same companies have become pretty good actors in most instances at least in the public
eye. Behind the curtain often the same blame game continues. In one instance, for a very large company,
counsel received a nasty gram threatening litigation. But it post analysis it may have been legal acting
disconnected from a major accessibility push. Fortunately the response was bring it on. They were looking
forward to the legal battle in the public space. We did a similar activity in regards to the information I also
did I regard to conformance and functional with library tech with the standards of the day. Now granted
this is now somewhat outdated, but it was the case as recent as 2008.

Ron Stewart
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Data in tables or lists with accessibility and responsive design in mind
> Sent: Feb 11 '14 18:25
> I would have a slightly different recommendation. Report bugs to the vendors but publish code that
works right now. In my view it is irresponsible to publish code that *should* work but doesn't. Sadly there
are a number of people who are perfectly happy to publish code that they know doesn't work, and say it's
not their problem if browsers and ATs don't render that code according to standards.
> In some cases people are using ATs that pre-date the standards, and in some cases the standards do
not fully specify what the behaviours of the browsers and ATs should be. Not everyone can afford to
upgrade to the latest AT version even in the Western world, let alone poorer parts of the world. And many
people cannot quantify the benefit of a costly upgrade.
> There is a disturbing narcissism in the development community. The most important people on any
project are the project owner and the end user. Everything that developers do should be done with the
intention of supporting them. But some developers, designers and consultants choose to pursue their own
agenda even when it is not in the best interest of the people they should be serving. In my view that is not
> Steve Green
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
Behalf Of Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
> Sent: 11 February 2014 15:20
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Data in tables or lists with accessibility and responsive design in mind
> Ben,
> Before settling on the DL approach, you should take a look at a recent thread on the W3C WAI
discussion list.  This message, in particular, discusses some problems with how AT has implemented DLs:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2014JanMar/0031.html
> (See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2014JanMar/thread.html for listing by thread - you
can see that discussion has been lively!)
> While "use the right element for the job and reports bugs to AT vendors" is the right thing to do (as is
pointed out someplace in that thread) I think you have some choice in what the "right" element is, and so
may want to consider how it will actually work for users.
> sb
> Sarah E. Bourne
> Director of Assistive Technology
> Information Technology Division
> Commonwealth of Massachusetts
> 1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
> 617-626-4502
> http://www.mass.gov/itd
> > From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [ <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of
ben jarlett [ <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 4:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Data in tables or lists with accessibility and responsive design in mind
> Thanks for all the thinking... Yes Léonie that is the catch... I want it to work on smaller screen sizes, and
I don't think it'll work on a phone in a table... so I'm gonna go with the DL suggestion and tableish styling
for large screen display. :)
> > > >