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Re: tabs vs windows

for

From: deborah.kaplan@suberic.net
Date: Aug 19, 2014 9:53AM

Well, one answer would be why would you need to be aware of a new window or
new tab trying to open? The answer is exactly the same as for modals --
something unexpected is going to happen and you want to know about it so
you can avoid it or control it appropriately.

In my case as a voice/keyboard user it's because if I knew a link would
open a modal there's a chance I would avoid the link, because many modals
are difficult to exit without a mouse. But again, there's no usability
distinction between wanting to know a modal is opening and wanting to know
a new tab/new window is opening. Your browser is going to do something
unexpected if you click a link, so it would be nice to be warned.

Deborah Kaplan

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014, Greg Gamble wrote:

> Deborah ... what would you need to be aware of a modal trying to open?
> I'd think just the modal showing would be enough, unless you're talking about the format/size of the modal?
>
> And I agree 100% on the bulleted list ... and see most newer or at least updated modal frameworks getting better, as far as closing and focus.
>
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:38 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] tabs vs windows
>
> That doesn't help keyboard/speech recognition users, though, because they still have no visible indicator.
>
> A lot of the problems with modals/lightboxes/etc. are screen reader-based, with the code not having the appropriate ARIA to report that the JavaScript dialog is now open. But many of them are problems for keyboard users, people with small viewports such as mobile devices, and mouse/touchscreen users who have trouble hitting small controls, so those users would also like to know if a link is going to open up a modal.
>
> (All of those problems are easily fixable, of course.
>
> * Make sure no JavaScript windows take up more than 100% of the current viewport
> * Make several methods of exiting the dialog, such as hitting Escape or clicking/tapping outside of the dialog, and not just a small and hard to see "X" in the top right corner.
> * Make the keyboard focus start at the beginning of the dialog, and -- with very rare exceptions -- trap the keyboard focus in the JS dialog.
> * And of course, have the appropriate WAI-ARIA to report the new screen to screen reader users.
>
> But the fact is even sites that theoretically carry about accessibility don't tend to bother to do all of these things.)
>
> Deborah Kaplan
>
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2014, Greg Gamble wrote:
>
>> Won't the tag ARIA role=dialog tell a browser if a modal opens up?
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Paul J.
>> Adam
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 7:51 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] tabs vs windows
>>
>> I agree that there should be an indication for all new windows including modals, light boxes, pop-over dialogs, etc.
>>
>> Also for expanding and collapsing content.
>>
>> This is even more important for screen reader users to know the the presence of these dynamic widgets than to know about the new window link indicators because the screen reader informs them when a new window opens but that does not happen with JavaScript widgets.
>>
>>
>> Paul J. Adam
>> Accessibility Evangelist
>> www.deque.com
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 9:46 AM, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
>>
>>> it's weird that there is not established best practice for opening a
>>> javascript modal dialog box. Given how inaccessibly the majority of
>>> them are coded, I would love to know before I click a link if it's
>>> going to bring one of those up. From a usability point of view, they
>>> aren't substantially different from a new tab (except that they are
>>> often coded much worse).
>>>
>>> Deborah
>>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2014, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Best practice is to warn all users, sighted and screen reader, to the presence of those new window links or file types links.
>>>>
>>>> Simple way to do that is to use a graphical icon for new windows, external links, PDF, doc, xls, etc. so visual users know what it is before clicking on the link and provide a text alternative for those icons so screen reader uses get the same info.
>>>>
>>>> Paul J. Adam
>>>> Accessibility Evangelist
>>>> www.deque.com
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 9:25 AM, Lijewski, Lolly M (DHS) < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> In my last post I asked about opening of windows, but in some browsers, tabs open. So the question is the same, what are the best practices when content opens in a new tab or window?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Lolly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lolly Lijewski
>>>>> Disability Services Division
>>>>> Minnesota Department of Human Services Work Phone: (651) 431-3218
>>>>> Fax: (651) 431-7411
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>>>>>
>>>>> Building Address:
>>>>> 540 Cedar Street
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>>>>>
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>>>>> PO Box 64967
>>>>> St. Paul Minnesota 55164-0967
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