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Re: Placeholder text contrast

for

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Mar 20, 2015 2:12PM

A number of times I have seen this sort of response to questions about making placeholder text work better: "In our website, we did away with it because [some percentage] of the responses left the placeholder text in place, and bad data is worse than no data. Do you know what that percentage is for your site?"

I don't recall ever seeing a response to that question—especially not an answer of, "We've tested that, and it never happens."

It seems like your group is doing some serious testing, Jesse. Is there any condition under which the form is never submitted with the placeholder text left in place?

If not, what is that error rate? And what is the impact to the customer's experience of your website?

Cliff Tyllick


Sent from my iPhone
Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its fault.

> On Mar 20, 2015, at 1:35 PM, Bryan Garaventa < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> There are additional issues regarding placeholder that relate to current Accessibility API mappings that are having a significant
> impact on accessibility for AT users at present as well, which I've already brought up recently at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0116.html
> Which might be helpful to be aware of.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:54 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder text contrast
>
> Thanks for the responses guys. That's very interesting that w3c specifically notes that placeholder text should meet the standard.
>
> I agree with that in principal, but it is curious that browsers fail this by default.
>
> I also agree with Jonathan's point about duplication.
>
> Thanks again,
> Jesse
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> wrote:
>
>>> If placeholder text is being used properly (input masks, giving
>>> examples,
>> etc) and visible form labels are present, does the placeholder text
>> need to meet contrast ratios?
>>
>> IMO if the information in the placeholder such as example or masks is
>> not available elsewhere then contrast would be an issue. If that
>> information is duplicated in the label then technically you would be
>> fine -- but in general placeholders can be confusing unless you are
>> very limited by space they may not be a good idea.
>>
>>> Browser defaults appear to be 2.2:1 or so... Are people expected to
>> override browser defaults?
>>
>> IMO most people will not know how to.
>>
>>> Our usability studies found that people thought that form fields
>>> were
>> already filled out when placeholder text color met 4.5:1.
>>
>> In general it may be best to avoid them if you can. Small screen
>> sizes make this a challenge though.
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> Phone 703.637.8957
>> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 12:57 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Placeholder text contrast
>>
>> If placeholder text is being used properly (input masks, giving
>> examples,
>> etc) and visible form labels are present, does the placeholder text
>> need to meet contrast ratios?
>>
>> Browser defaults appear to be 2.2:1 or so... Are people expected to
>> override browser defaults?
>>
>> Our usability studies found that people thought that form fields were
>> already filled out when placeholder text color met 4.5:1.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jesse
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > >
> > >