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Re: Placeholder text contrast

for

From: via WebAIM-Forum
Date: Mar 20, 2015 7:33PM

I would point the design team to the wealth of usability studies that say, even ignoring accessibility considerations, users simply don't understand how to interact with form field placeholders.

eg. http://www.nngroup.com/articles/form-design-placeholders/

They don't work, they confuse users, and they worsen form fill success. Given all the evidence, I don't see why developers won't give up on their conviction that placeholders are good design.

Deborah Kaplan



On Fri, 20 Mar 2015, Jesse Hausler via WebAIM-Forum wrote:

> As a follow up question to anyone still reading this thread... what would
> you say to the idea that placeholder text is the browser default (poor
> contrast) gray. Then onfocus, the placeholder contrast is upped to 4.5:1?
>
> Cliff,
> Our placeholder text uses the placeholder attribute, so it wasn't an issue
> of users submitting bad data. Our researchers observed that some users
> felt they had nothing to complete on a given page. They were faced with a
> form, thought it was already filled out and then submitted without
> completing or didnt submit at all.
>
> I can't speak to an error rate, but it was enough for the team to ask me
> about it. Our product relies on users inputing information about their
> customers, accounts, leads, etc. If they think that a field is already
> filled in and do not provide that piece of information, then they aren't
> using the product to the fullest. That means we can't use that data to make
> them more successful at their work, businesses, non-profits, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Jesse
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Cliff Tyllick < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> A number of times I have seen this sort of response to questions about
>> making placeholder text work better: "In our website, we did away with it
>> because [some percentage] of the responses left the placeholder text in
>> place, and bad data is worse than no data. Do you know what that percentage
>> is for your site?"
>>
>> I don't recall ever seeing a response to that question—especially not an
>> answer of, "We've tested that, and it never happens."
>>
>> It seems like your group is doing some serious testing, Jesse. Is there
>> any condition under which the form is never submitted with the placeholder
>> text left in place?
>>
>> If not, what is that error rate? And what is the impact to the customer's
>> experience of your website?
>>
>> Cliff Tyllick
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Although its spellcheck often saves me, all goofs in sent messages are its
>> fault.
>>
>> > On Mar 20, 2015, at 1:35 PM, Bryan Garaventa <
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >
>> > There are additional issues regarding placeholder that relate to current
>> Accessibility API mappings that are having a significant
>> > impact on accessibility for AT users at present as well, which I've
>> already brought up recently at
>> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Mar/0116.html
>> > Which might be helpful to be aware of.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
>> > Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:54 AM
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Placeholder text contrast
>> >
>> > Thanks for the responses guys. That's very interesting that w3c
>> specifically notes that placeholder text should meet the standard.
>> >
>> > I agree with that in principal, but it is curious that browsers fail
>> this by default.
>> >
>> > I also agree with Jonathan's point about duplication.
>> >
>> > Thanks again,
>> > Jesse
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Jonathan Avila <
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> If placeholder text is being used properly (input masks, giving
>> >>> examples,
>> >> etc) and visible form labels are present, does the placeholder text
>> >> need to meet contrast ratios?
>> >>
>> >> IMO if the information in the placeholder such as example or masks is
>> >> not available elsewhere then contrast would be an issue. If that
>> >> information is duplicated in the label then technically you would be
>> >> fine -- but in general placeholders can be confusing unless you are
>> >> very limited by space they may not be a good idea.
>> >>
>> >>> Browser defaults appear to be 2.2:1 or so... Are people expected to
>> >> override browser defaults?
>> >>
>> >> IMO most people will not know how to.
>> >>
>> >>> Our usability studies found that people thought that form fields
>> >>> were
>> >> already filled out when placeholder text color met 4.5:1.
>> >>
>> >> In general it may be best to avoid them if you can. Small screen
>> >> sizes make this a challenge though.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Jonathan Avila
>> >> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> >> SSB BART Group
>> >> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> Phone 703.637.8957
>> >> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
>> >> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jesse Hausler
>> >> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 12:57 PM
>> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> >> Subject: [WebAIM] Placeholder text contrast
>> >>
>> >> If placeholder text is being used properly (input masks, giving
>> >> examples,
>> >> etc) and visible form labels are present, does the placeholder text
>> >> need to meet contrast ratios?
>> >>
>> >> Browser defaults appear to be 2.2:1 or so... Are people expected to
>> >> override browser defaults?
>> >>
>> >> Our usability studies found that people thought that form fields were
>> >> already filled out when placeholder text color met 4.5:1.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Jesse
>> >> >> >> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >> >> >> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> > >> > >> messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> >
>> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >>
> > > --