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Re: Screen Readers as a Development Tool for Web Developers

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From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Jul 17, 2015 1:43PM

I certainly wasn't saying don't test. I agree, testing is absolutely necessary. I was just saying that unless a developer tests all the time, with a screen reader, it is an unrealistic expectation to expect her to be good at it.

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Paul Bohman
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 2:41 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen Readers as a Development Tool for Web Developers

It's true that screen readers are complex, especially when you take into account different brands, versions, browsers, bugs, and user settings.

Even so, when a developer creates an ARIA widget, *someone* has to test it with a screen reader, because in approximately 100% of the cases where a developer who doesn't know how to use a screen reader creates an ARIA widget, it is flawed, and often badly unusable.

Whether an organization has on on-site designated screen reader testing person (or team) or whether they expect developers to test it themselves, someone has to do it, or it's essentially guaranteed to be broken.


Paul Bohman, PhD
Director of Training, Deque Systems, Inc https://DequeUniversity.com 703-225-0380, ext.121


*Join us at our Mobile Accessibility "Bootcamp!" * August 6-7 in Austin Texas https://dequeuniversity.com/events/2015/mobile
Topics include responsive web design, native apps, & more

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Andrews, David B (DEED) < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> On the whole I agree with Jennifer -- as I usually do! Anyway, as
> others have pointed out, this is a complex issue, and if I had to do
> so, I could argue it either way. I have even worked with developers,
> and given demonstrations at conferences, to developers, on using
> screen readers for testing.
>
> However, in the end, I think it doesn't work well. Unless you use a
> screen reader on a regular basis, you simply aren't going to be very good at it.
> In an ideal world, developers would be able to test using screen
> readers, but they already have a huge amount on their plates, so I
> think it is unrealistic to expect them to be experts in this too.
>
> Jennifer's visual tools are ultimately the best solution, but until
> they exist, we may just have to rely on accessibility professionals to
> do testing.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Jennifer Sutton
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 1:44 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen Readers as a Development Tool for Web
> Developers
>
> As evidenced by a recent thread:
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadp00
>
> specifically this message from me:
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_message?id(769
>
> I continue to believe that expecting folks to learn how to use screen
> readers is not going to scale. And it too often takes people down rat
> holes that are not important. I find that this is especially so when
> folks have never seen real people who use a screen reader. Using a
> screen reader is not like using a browser.
>
> Examples include both the difficulties people are having with
> understanding how to implement ARIA correctly, as well as, as far as I
> am concerned, the issues that are going to increasingly arise with the
> implementation of accessible SVG.
>
> I realize what a complex issue this is (again, as evidenced by the
> thread cited above), but it seems to me that we've been having this
> expectation for many years, and it's not working particularly well.
> If it were, we'd all be going out of business. [Some of you may not
> have that objective, but I do, even if my bank account may disagree.]
>
> So, as I see it, we need a new way, and it seems to me that that way
> will involve meeting devs and designers where they are, i.e.
> including relevant prompts (and visual replication of screen reader
> standard behaviors) in the off-the-shelf (commercial or opensource)
> tools they're already using.
>
> If I were independently wealthy, and if I were a coder, I'd shut up
> and do it myself.
>
> Dennis, for the record, this conversation has gone on many times in
> the past. Below my name are a small selection of links that, while
> they may have an older perspective, still outline the issues, I believe.
>
> My conclusion: we have no choice, today, but I believe a paradigm
> shift would pay off hugely. And it *could* be (though I have no
> evidence for this, except hope) that digital publishers might be of
> great help in getting us there, given the large quantity of content
> and increasing requirements they have.
>
> Best,
> Jennifer
> [hereby promising not to continue to step up on this Soap Box]
>
> Should Sighted Developers Use Screenreaders To Test Accessibility
> Accessibility NZ
> http://accessibility.net.nz/blog/should-sighted-developers-use-screenr
> eaders-to-test-accessibility/
>
> Setting up a screen reader test environment
> http://www.iheni.com/screen-reader-testing/
>
> Screen reader tips for Web Designers and Developers
> http://davidakennedy.com/2014/11/10/screen-reader-tips/
>
> webaim Testing with Screen Readers - Questions and Answers
> http://webaim.org/articles/screenreader_testing/
>