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Re: Opening modal window without user action

for

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Mar 31, 2016 3:45AM

I think at this stage we have already established that the modal itself
fails 3.2.5 (AAA) - just not that specific *informative* example of
failure relating specifically to windows.

P

On 31/03/2016 09:48, John Hicks wrote:
> Well, it is about change of context, surely ....
>
> I guess it could depend on what you mean by "New window" ... in the SC we
> read :
>
> "New windows take the focus away from what the user is reading or doing."
>
> "The failure comes when pop-ups appear unexpectedly."
>
> ... .seems pretty applicable to me.
>
> 2016-03-31 10:43 GMT+02:00 Patrick H. Lauke < <EMAIL REMOVED> >:
>
>>
>>
>> On 31/03/2016 09:31, John Hicks wrote:
>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>> ... I don't see how it doesn't fail 3.2.5
>>>
>>> For me it is a violation of this point (3.2.5)
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F22.html
>>>
>>
>> Splitting hairs, it's not a new window, but a modal dialog in the current
>> window.
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>>
>>> 2016-03-30 22:14 GMT+02:00 Bruno Girard < <EMAIL REMOVED> >:
>>>
>>> Finally, what I take from these exchanges...
>>>> - WGAG has holes in it! Thanks Chaals for bringing it to WCAG group, I
>>>> hope
>>>> something will happen in the near feature. :)
>>>> - Sadly, there is nothing at level A and AA that can stop us to display
>>>> modal windows after a delay even if the majority tells it is a very bad
>>>> practice and everyone wants to send unsolicited pop-ups to death....
>>>> - With AAA level, we can send people to jail... I will visit them and
>>>> ask:
>>>> How expensive *were* your attorney fees?
>>>> - It is better to show modal pop-over at page loads, but unlike
>>>> helenkeller.org, we should never be able to navigate using keyboard on
>>>> the
>>>> elements under the pop-over when it is displayed.
>>>> - I totally agree with Patrick: "Making the survey (as a modal, or as a
>>>> separate tab/window, or whatever) appear only as a result of a user
>>>> interaction on a link or clearly sign-posted button would be the
>>>> preferred/least problematic option of course".
>>>> - I continue to hate my actual pop-over after a delay modal solution. I
>>>> will work hard to have the budget to have this changed. I had like to
>>>> have
>>>> a non-conformity argument thought...
>>>>
>>>> Should I take more?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Bruno
>>>>
>>>> 2016-03-29 6:41 GMT-04:00 Chaals McCathie Nevile < <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:37:05 +0100, Patrick H. Lauke <
>>>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/03/2016 11:18, Bruno Girard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Rakesh,
>>>>>>> This change do not happen on focus... It is slightly different. We
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> window and give focus to this window. This window appears after a
>>>>>>> programmed delay, without any specific user action. Does 3.2.1 is
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> criteria to invoke for this fail?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears that WCAG 2.0 does not have a very specific SC for
>>>>>> unexpected
>>>>>> changes of context that happen without user action (be it input or
>>>>>>
>>>>> focus)
>>>>
>>>>> at AA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. I think this is a serious problem actually. I'll take it back to
>>>>> the WCAG group.
>>>>>
>>>>> For AAA, I'd say this falls foul of 3.2.5 Change on Request
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/consistent-behavior-no-extreme-changes-context.html
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it also fails 2.2.4 - postpone time limits before they impact
>>>>> the
>>>>> user - again at AAA level,
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/time-limits-postponed.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Elsewhere in the thread at 15:20:22 +0100, Patrick H. Lauke <
>>>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ironically perhaps, I'd say that if the automatic popup happened right
>>>>>> away, and NOT after a timeout (so that the user didn't already start
>>>>>> interacting with the actual page, only to be unceremoniously and
>>>>>>
>>>>> unwantedly
>>>>
>>>>> being yanked off to this popup), then it would be less of a problem...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Right. In fact I think the case described in the failure technique at
>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F52.html *doesn't* violate WCAG 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I raised an issue on that through the feedback form, but I have no idea
>>>>> whether that goes somewhere that it can be found by others. Anyone know?
>>>>>
>>>> Or
>>>>
>>>>> should I duplicate it with a github issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> (this would also remove the problem/annoyance experienced by all users -
>>>>>
>>>>>> e.g. the "non disabled" mouse user who is starting to
>>>>>>
>>>>> read/interact/scroll
>>>>
>>>>> down on the page only to then be rudely presented with a doorslam modal;
>>>>>> this would also, of course, be a problem for users with cognitive
>>>>>> disabilities, or screen magnification, etc)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> yeah, part of the problem here is that you think you're doing something,
>>>>> so you start a sequence of actions (navigation keystrokes, entering text
>>>>> through an IME, all kinds of oddness) but mid-way through they are
>>>>>
>>>> suddenly
>>>>
>>>>> applied somewhere else.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3.3.4 and 3.3.6 - error prevention, limited for level AA and general for
>>>>> AAA, where actions that affect user data must be reversible or confirmed
>>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> would apply in some of these cases, but the confusion effect isn't
>>>>>
>>>> handled
>>>>
>>>>> automatically, so it depends on what happens in the modal popup and the
>>>>> webpage.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Chaals
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
>>>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >

--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke