WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: screen reader versions for testing

for

From: Mallory
Date: Nov 2, 2016 3:11PM


We (my work) may have to start testing ChromeVox because we make
education products and it seems in the US, Chromeboxes are becoming
popular:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/19/11711714/chromebooks-outsold-macs-us-idc-figures

On Sun, Oct 30, 2016, at 09:40 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> The reason I have not encouraged testing with ChromeVox is that it is
> very rarely used.
> According to the latest WebAiM screen reader user survey:
> http://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey6/
> it is the primary screen reader for 0.3% of correspondants, while NVDA
> is in the 15% range (and much higher if you take secondary screen
> readers into acount).
> Sadly it is not enough to make sure the webpage code conforms to
> standards, it needs to be tested with at least one assistive
> technology, usually a screen reader, and that usually means learning
> and implementing some workarounds to address the qwerks of that
> particular screen reader.
> If I am putting an effort into that, I want to make sure to use a
> popular screen reader, so those workarounds are noticed.
> Of course screen reader usage pattern changes, and we all should keep
> a close eye on the WebAIM survey (and other usage statistics if they
> become available).
> A thumbs up for WebAIM for taking the initiative to carry out this
> survey. It is incredibly valuable when recommending and formulating a
> corporate accessibility testing strategy, management wants
> justification and numbers behind all recommendations.
> The Android/Talkback development is exciting and I am keeping a close
> prosthetic eye on it, in case it surpasses Voiceover use on responsive
> web in the near future, it could maybe do that, seeing as Google is
> doing good while the latest Apple upgrades are a bit underwhelming
> (well, in my personal opinion that is).
> -B
>
>
> On 10/30/16, Kevin Chao < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > I've been doing lots of a11y testing using ChromeVox Next
> > <http://www.chromevox.com/next.html>; and TalkBack
> > <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.marvin.talkback&hl=en>
> > with
> > Chrome. I've found it to be comparable to/better than Mac/iOS VoiceOver. In
> > the past half year, there have been lots of excellent improvements to
> > Google's screen readers and browsers, so strongly recommend for these to be
> > factored in AT test matrix.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 4:20 AM Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> We generally test with NVDA (current - 1) with Firefox (current -2).
> >> NVDA is free, open source (so available to the general user at no
> >> cost), has good visual tools to help developers and does not hide
> >> accessibility issues like Jaws does (I appreciate Jaws trying to fill
> >> in the gap for the end users but it makes it a bad tool for testing).
> >> Since I am heavily involved in development and testing of contet, I
> >> sanity check it with Jaws and IE, and we try to file bug and work
> >> around the most critical problems we see occurring in that
> >> combination.
> >> For responsive web, we use iOS, latest (because upgrading is easy),
> >> iPhone 6 in portrait mode (testing in portrait and landscape on phone
> >> and tablet adds a lot of overhead very quickly).
> >> Generally, banks recommend that users upgrade to latest versions of
> >> browsers for security reasons.
> >> We are looking into testing at least key pages with screen
> >> magnification and speech recognition as well.
> >>
> >> Of course we focus primarily to make sure our code validates and that
> >> our ARIA, when we use it, is correct.
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/29/16, JP Jamous < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> > Here we test with the latest versions of JAWS/Internet Explorer,
> >> > NVDA/Firefox and Voiceover/Safari.
> >> >
> >> > It makes it a bit hard to find the happy medium as all 3 screen readers
> >> > render HTML markup differently. To achieve the happy medium, we try to
> >> focus
> >> > on proper semantic whenever we can. Sometimes that is not possible and
> >> > we
> >> > notice that NVDA and Voiceover tend to behave similarly, but JAWS is
> >> > different since it drills deeper into the markup.
> >> >
> >> > We do test every now and then with older versions of the 3 screen
> >> readers in
> >> > case we run into an issue. As a good example, aria-describedby and
> >> > aria-labelledby were not supported with Voiceover on iOS 10. We tested
> >> our
> >> > code against iOS 9.4 and found that it worked fine. That was when we
> >> > realized that it was a bug on behalf of Apple.
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >> Behalf
> >> > Of Beranek, Nicholas
> >> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 9:46 PM
> >> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] screen reader versions for testing
> >> >
> >> > We test primarily with the latest versions of NVDA and Firefox. We've
> >> found
> >> > that JAWS will compensate for bad coding practices (e.g. A missing
> >> > programmatic label but adjacent text was present) and there were
> >> > possibilities that it missed certain issues. If there is ever any
> >> question
> >> > about the results from NVDA; then we'll try another browser. If it
> >> persists,
> >> > we try another screen reader such as JAWS. Sometimes, we'll find that
> >> it's
> >> > simply a user agent issue and we'll do our best to file a bug.
> >> >
> >> > For responsive, we'll test the latest version of iOS with VoiceOver and
> >> > Safari. Utilizing subject matter expertise: knowledge of the guidelines,
> >> > nuances between screen readers, browsers, and operating systems,
> >> front-end
> >> > development experience, other tools such as aXe and MSAA Object Inspect,
> >> the
> >> > community, ARIA design patterns, and I could go on further, we're able
> >> > to
> >> > qualify that we've done our absolute best.
> >> >
> >> > I hope this helps,
> >> >
> >> > Nick Beranek
> >> > Capital One
> >> >
> >> >> On Oct 28, 2016, at 4:54 PM, Mallory < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Kinda the same here: test with current (sometimes the tester doesn't
> >> >> have the absolute most-current either), and things that don't work, we
> >> >> look them up to see if it's some known bug, if it was fixes, which
> >> >> versions were affected. In general being up to date for some big bugs
> >> >> so that if things work with a current version, we can be more aware it
> >> >> may fail in an older version.
> >> >>
> >> >> One thing I try to keep in mind is wealthy web developers tend to have
> >> >> the latest and greatest. But the same usually can't be said for our
> >> >> customers, so it's dangerous for us to assume "passes in latest" => >> >> works for everyone.
> >> >>
> >> >> cheers,
> >> >> _mallory
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016, at 09:42 PM, Moore,Michael (Accessibility)
> >> >> (HHSC)
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> Generally we test with the current release of JAWS. This is after we
> >> >>> have thoroughly analyzed the code. If we run into unexpected problems
> >> >>> then we will test with current release of NVDA, older versions of
> >> >>> JAWS, more browsers etc. What we are doing at that point is
> >> >>> attempting to determine who to file the defect with, what possible
> >> >>> work arounds exist, and whether we can justify changing code that is
> >> >>> technically compliant.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Mike Moore
> >> >>> Accessibility Coordinator
> >> >>> Texas Health and Human Services Commission Civil Rights Office
> >> >>> (512) 438-3431 (Office)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> >> >>> Behalf Of Delisi, Jennie (MNIT)
> >> >>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 1:22 PM
> >> >>> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> >>> Subject: [WebAIM] screen reader versions for testing
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hello,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Interested in feedback. For those that test websites and documents
> >> >>> for accessibility against the standards, but also use screen readers
> >> >>> as a part of the testing protocols:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -how many versions do you test with? For example, if there is a
> >> >>> version
> >> >>> 17 and a version 18 of the same screen reader, are you testing with
> >> >>> the current version and 1 version back?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -for those testing websites and documents that will be reviewed by
> >> >>> the public, do you have a different number of versions you test with,
> >> >>> as opposed to documents that will only be used internally? For
> >> >>> example, there may be an expectation of employees having access to
> >> >>> the latest version of a particular screen reader (with maybe one
> >> >>> version back for a period of time), but the public may have varying
> >> >>> amounts of resources to put towards upgrades.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks in advance for any information you can share. I will be cross
> >> >>> posting this on the IAAP list and LinkedIn.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jennie
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jennie Delisi
> >> >>> Accessibility Analyst | Office of Accessibility Minnesota IT Services
> >> >>> | Partners in Performance
> >> >>> 658 Cedar Street
> >> >>> St. Paul, MN, 55155
> >> >>> O: 651-201-1135 <(651)%20201-1135>
> >> >>> Information Technology for Minnesota Government | mn.gov/mnit
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> >> > >> > > >> >
> >> > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> >> proprietary
> >> > to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in
> >> > performance of work or services for Capital One. The information
> >> transmitted
> >> > herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which
> >> it is
> >> > addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> >> you
> >> > are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination,
> >> > distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in
> >> reliance
> >> > upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> >> > communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> >> > material
> >> > from your computer.
> >> > > >> > > >> archives at
> >> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > >