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Re: Web development; How to identify if a screen reader is in use

for

From: John Foliot
Date: May 11, 2017 11:48AM

Jon wrote:

> the short answer is yes, with limitations on not knowing the specific
version or model of screen reader.

Really? Since when? (Although, after writing this, I do recall seeing a
third-party analytics program that could spit out iOS details, but only
iOS... and i freaked out when i saw that too.)

I recall a number of years ago at a CSUN (back in the LAX days) where the
president of Freedom Scientific explicitly stated that they would be
opposed to anything like that, and would actively block attempts at doing
that. Additionally, this is not a new request, yet this is the first time I
am hearing that you can actually target AT (outside of the hoary old Flash
test of years ago). Jon, can you point this list to further reading /
resources about this please?

Like others who have chimed in, there are serious security and privacy
considerations that need to be contemplated here. Additionally, sniffing
for a screen reader (for example) doesn't mean that the end user is
actually using the screen reader themselves (it may be a shared machine,
where 1/2 of a "couple" need a screen reader, the other doesn't), or
situations where both sighted and non-sighted users are looking at the same
web page together at the same time. Thus, the presence of AT alone is
meaningless, and attempts in using that data to modify the user-experience
will likely fail as often as succeed.

In short, IMHO this is a really bad idea.

> Does anybody with a disability who reads this list remember how
liberating it was to be able to be on the Internet and not be identified,
unless one chose to?

Agreed! What's the old New Yorker cartoon? "On the internet, nobody knows
you are a dog"? This is not a bad thing!

JF

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Lucy Greco < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> use best pracktuses and do not even think about detecting my screen reader
> i don't want you to change your site thinking that is the only way to make
> your site useable if that is the only way no one elce likes what your
> doing and they might want you to re think the fancy stuff that needs to be
> changed for them to
>
> Lucia Greco
> Web Accessibility Evangelist
> IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> University of California, Berkeley
> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Jonathan Avila <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
>
> > > Another concern is "numbers." If you take any given segment of the
> > disabled population, blind people, deaf people, low vision persons,
> screen
> > reader users, etc., its numbers are going to be relatively low compared
> to
> > the whole.
> >
> > Dave, I agree. Any numbers have to carefully be considered and message
> to
> > stakeholders. It is however compelling to be able to say x% of your
> screen
> > reader users are using Firefox or x% are using Internet Explorer and x%
> are
> > using Chrome while x% of your zoom users are using Chrome, etc. Knowing
> > how many screen reader users are using iOS who visit your site versus
> > Android may allow you to focus or not focus on browser specific issues or
> > decide how to handle potential touch challenges with certain AT and user
> > agent combinations.
> >
> > Right now the community only has access to the WebAIM screen reader
> survey
> > to get information about these topics. This is an important area where
> we
> > need more data to focus and push back to organizations and say you can't
> > just focus on one user agent just because all of your non-AT users are
> > using that user agent -- you have to consider user agents used by people
> > with assistive technology as well.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Jonathan Avila
> > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > SSB BART Group
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > 703.637.8957 (Office)
> > Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> > Download our CSUN Presentations Here!
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> > and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> > entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Andrews, David B (DEED)
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 12:23 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web development; How to identify if a screen reader
> > is in use
> >
> > Another concern is "numbers." If you take any given segment of the
> > disabled population, blind people, deaf people, low vision persons,
> screen
> > reader users, etc., its numbers are going to be relatively low compared
> to
> > the whole. So, I think people are afraid that if sites have specific
> > numbers, "I only had five screen reader users last month," for example,
> it
> > will work against us, and not for us in the long run.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 11:15 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web development; How to identify if a screen reader
> > is in use
> >
> > > Even if it comes from good intentions, I am loathe to support an idea
> > that results in a "separate, but equal" experience.
> >
> > Any technology has the capacity to be mis-used -- telephones are mis-used
> > everyday to spam or harass callers. However, overlooking the benefits
> of a
> > potential technology must be considered. Any intention to identify user
> > behaviors has benefits. For example, scripts already exist to identify
> > high contrast users in order to provide them with equivalent information
> > when background images are turned off. Responsive websites are used
> every
> > day and adjust to the users viewport width which is based on factors
> > including low vision users using the zoom feature in your browsers. So I
> > would urge people to consider this not as a means to track people with
> > disabilities to better understand how users are interacting with your
> > website and provide adaptability and flexibility to those users.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Jonathan Avila
> > Chief Accessibility Officer
> > SSB BART Group
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > 703.637.8957 (Office)
> > Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog Download
> > our CSUN Presentations Here!
> >
> > The information contained in this transmission may be attorney privileged
> > and/or confidential information intended for the use of the individual or
> > entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
> > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Thompson, Rachel
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 12:09 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web development; How to identify if a screen reader
> > is in use
> >
> > Hi, all.
> >
> > Automatic detection of assistive technology presents problems in my
> world.
> > We cannot legally "out" someone with a disability and this approach has
> the
> > potential to do that. This would certainly be an issue for our lawyers if
> > it existed on any sort of application materials for attending or working
> at
> > our institution.
> >
> > Even if it comes from good intentions, I am loathe to support an idea
> that
> > results in a "separate, but equal" experience.
> >
> > Hope you have a good day,
> > Rachel
> >
> > Dr. Rachel S. Thompson
> > Director, Emerging Technology and Accessibility The Center for
> > Instructional Technology The University of Alabama
> > 110 Russell Hall
> > Box 870248
> > Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
> > Phone 205-348-0216
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> | http://cit.ua.edu | http://accessibility.ua.edu
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Beranek, Nicholas
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 10:58 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web development; How to identify if a screen reader
> > is in use
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Not for Web Accessibility. On iOS, we have the ability to detect whether
> > or not assistive technologies like VoiceOver are running, but this is
> only
> > through native applications. I remember discussions about how people
> would
> > feel if developers could detect whether or not they're using a screen
> > reader, magnifier, or other AT. I don't recall what came out of those
> > discussions.
> >
> > I gave a talk about data and accessibility and how we're unable to get
> > numbers related to screen reader usage. If we could, would we use it to
> > "water down" the experience? We are firm believers at Capital One in
> > providing an inclusive and enriching experience regardless of disability.
> >
> > I think it's time to discuss this very topic again. Thanks for bringing
> it
> > up.
> >
> > Nick Beranek
> > Capital One
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of John Contarino x245
> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 11:48 AM
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Web development; How to identify if a screen reader is
> > in use
> >
> > Hi,
> > Is it possible in web site development to identify if a screen reader is
> > in use by the end user?
> > Similar to how different browsers are identified and can be interpreted
> in
> > code based on browser.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > John Contarino
> > Programmer Analyst
> >
> >
> > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >
> > The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or
> > proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used
> > solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The
> information
> > transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity
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> > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >



--
John Foliot
Principal Accessibility Strategist
Deque Systems Inc.
<EMAIL REMOVED>

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion