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Re: html 5 required

for

From: Tomlins Diane
Date: Nov 8, 2017 8:55AM


Thanks everyone for your input, very helpful. Since it's apparent NVDA users are accustomed to it and it's a Firefox bug, then we'll move forward with the "required" value. I did run across a form on another site that did exactly the same thing!

Diane R Tomlins
HCA IT&S | Digital Media
Accessibility SME


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Steve Faulkner
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2017 6:48 PM
To: Beranek, Nicholas < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required

>
> Now we find in testing, using NVDA 2017.3 with Firefox, NVDA announces
> empty fields as "invalid entry" the first time the user focuses on
> them, even before the error checking that takes place when a user hits
> the Submit button.


This is not due to any screen reader, it is due to the required attribute being exposed as required and invalid in browser accessibility APIs. The reasoning behind this is that until a required control has received some user input, it does not meet its validation constraints and is therefore in an invalid state.

discussion of this is in a related Firefox bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?idf6544



--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 6 November 2017 at 23:47, Beranek, Nicholas via WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Diane, I recommend keeping the required attribute. For
> compatibility, I would add the value “required”, as well. You’re
> encountering expected behavior with NVDA and Firefox because, by
> definition, since a value is required, lack of a value, or null value,
> would be invalid. I am always hesitant to include a hack to appease a
> browser/AT, and the use of the required attribute is a sufficient technique.
>
> Nick Beranek
> Capital One
>
> On Nov 6, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Tomlins Diane <Diane.Tomlins@HCAhealthcare.
> com<mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> wrote:
>
>
> This just came up for us, and we just switched 70+ code files to use
> the html 5 "required' attribute. Now we find in testing, using NVDA
> 2017.3 with Firefox, NVDA announces empty fields as "invalid entry"
> the first time the user focuses on them, even before the error
> checking that takes place when a user hits the Submit button. So I
> would think this would make things confusing for AT users.
>
> We tried adding aria-required="true" but that didn't help since we
> still have the "required" attribute in there too.
>
> If I understand the replies to this thread, the "required' attribute
> is still a patchwork of support between browsers and AT??
>
> Our developers won't be thrilled to back-pedal to take out the
> attribute they just put in :-/
>
> Any possible workaround besides going back?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Diane R Tomlins
> HCA IT&S | Digital Media
> Accessibility SME
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Avila
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 7:04 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
>
> I am confused. The label is exposed isn´t it, the way you wrote it.
>
> I can confirm that with NVDA after a form is submitted and focus is
> moved to the field in error in some browsers NVDA only announces the
> error and not the label. If you open the speech viewer you will find
> the label is there -- which I believe indicates that the error message
> is being treated like an assertive live region and somehow
> interrupting the label from being announced.
>
> In our testing of the HTML required attribute in different browsers
> the supports varied between browsers with screen readers. In
> addition, some browsers use a red border to indicate the error state
> while only providing a mouse involked tooltip further complicated the
> use of the required attribute as it could be claimed color alone was
> used to communicate the error visually to people with color deficiency
> who were not using a screen reader.
>
> I would agree with Patrick that at this time if you need to support
> multiple browsers and multiple AT the support is not there yet to
> fully conform with this method alone. It’s a shame because it's a
> simple method that should be better supported without requiring
> developers to implement more complex and costly solutions.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
> (703) 637-8957
> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Blog
> Looking to boost your accessibility knowledge? Check out our free webinars!
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 1:19 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto:
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
>
> I am confused. The label is exposed isn´t it, the way you wrote it.
> If there is a title attribute or a placeholder, maybe those don´t get
> exposed when you add the required attribute?
> Which browsers/a.t. combinations are you using?
> Are you using a proper label assocaition?
> Are you using either a title or placeholder attribute (on the input field)?
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 8/3/17, Angela French < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
> wrote:
> Thanks for responding. I guess what confuses me is that if the cursor
> goes to the field (with the required message) and the field is
> labelled correctly, why isn't the label exposed again?
>
> Angela
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 2:51 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] html 5 required
>
> On 03/08/2017 22:45, Angela French wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are trying to use the html 5 required attribute on required form
> fields. In testing, I am finding that each browser I test with (with
> NVDA) handles it differently. The problem is that in most browsers I
> hear the message that a field is required, but it doesn't tell me
> WHICH field it is referring to even though the cursor goes to the
> first empty field.
> The only browser that played very nicely on this was Chrome.
> Curiously, even Chrome didn't read the required field message ("Please
> fill out this field."). Rather it said "Last Name invalid entry
> required."
>
> Is there a way to make this behavior consistent?
>
> In short: don't use required attribute at this stage, but instead
> aria-required="true" and traditional custom error messages/bubbles.
>
> Regarding the "Please fill out this field", I assume you're referring
> to the default browser error tooltip bubble? If so, last time I
> checked (2 years ago), none of the browsers exposed the text they
> visually present
> -
> http://developer.telerik.com/featured/building-html5-form-validation-b
> ubble-replacements/#comment-2381878676
>
> So once again, better to use old custom-made bubbles to show error
> messages (and then tie them to the relevant form field with
> aria-describedby or similar).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
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