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Re: Selects with drop downs

for

From: Steve Green
Date: Mar 15, 2018 4:11AM

I have filed a bug report.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: 15 March 2018 09:29
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs

I think you should file the bug on Chrome and put a message that people should use Firefox or it may not work as expected. There is no excuse for browsers to not support HTML5 completely after 10 years.
Most screen reader users use Firefox anyways, so datalists work great.
Thank you,


Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Browser support for <datalist> is very poor, which is a shame because
> it does exactly what I need in our CRM system.
>
> The W3Schools website says that Safari does not support it at all. It
> works in Chrome but it's got a nasty behaviour insofar as the list
> does not fully repopulate if you type some characters and then delete
> them all. You have to either close the dropdown and re-open it, or click in the textbox.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: 14 March 2018 19:24
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
>
> A lot of people don't know this, but HTML5 actually has simulated
> combox code.
> That is the list attribute combined with the <datalist> element.
> <label for="search">Search</label>
> <input id="search" type="text" list="suggestions"> <datalist
> id="suggestions"> <option value="suggestion 1"> <option
> value="suggestion 2"> ..
> </datalist>
>
> The <datalist> elemet should hold all the possible options, they can
> be loaded from a JSon file.
> When user starts typing into the search input the browser
> automatically displays matching suggestions from the datalist (it
> shows the value of the matching option elements).
> In Firefox at least you can use arrow keys to navigate into and
> through the list, enter to select an option and close it, and escape
> to dismiss it without selecting.
> There are support and implementation differences between browsers
> (Firefox matches the string from the beginning, Chrome only matches
> for a substring,
> IE11 doesn't do anything at all).
>
> For instance, if you type "ppl" into the field and "apples" was one of
> the options, Chrome would display it as a suggestion but Firefox would not.
>
> If we can file bugs and get the browser vendors committed this is
> close to being an accessible no-JavaScript-needed solution.
> I think this and accessibility support of the <dialog> element are the
> biggest advances that current HTML5 has to offer, the amount of ARIA
> and JavaScript and focus management that is needed to get those right
> is beyond most ordinary developers, and I don't blame them.
> But if they could do it with HTML, it would be amazing.
>
> I don't know why this isn't gaining more traction, most web developers
> I talk to have never heard of this, even if it is in the HTML5 spec.
>
>
>
> On 3/14/18, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > Hi Bryan,
> >
> > I will reply off-list. At this stage all I really want is a
> > replacement for a native combobox, so I have only been testing the
> > Country combobox at http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%
> 20Comboboxes/ARIA%20Comboboxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Multiselect%
> 20Editable%20with%20Substring%20Match)/demo.htm.
> > All the other whizzy features such as autocomplete can wait until we
> > get the basic widget working.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
> > Sent: 14 March 2018 18:09
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
> >
> > "and the Whatsock designs don't work at all well in some cases. In
> > one specific case, JAWS 2018 announces that the combobox has been
> > set to a different value than has actually been selected."
> >
> > Hi,
> > There are many possibilities which may be causing this confusion,
> > not just the programming of the widget. E.G The purpose you are
> > trying to use the combobox for, support level differences between
> > browsers or screen reader bugs, or configuration settings available
> > within the combobox widget that you may not be aware of.
> >
> > So, when you get a chance, can you please reply with steps to
> > reproduce, including the version of JAWS and which browser you are
> > using plus the widget example you are testing? Also please explain
> > the negative behavior that you are experiencing, which will give me
> > a sense of where to home in specifically.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> >
> > Bryan Garaventa
> > Accessibility Fellow
> > Level Access, Inc.
> > <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > 415.624.2709 (o)
> > www.LevelAccess.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf
> > Of Steve Green
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:31 AM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
> >
> > I have been testing those Whatsock comboboxes recently and I find
> > that they only work well under certain specific circumstances. There
> > are many ways in which a user can interact with even a simple
> > combobox (I have tested ten ways but there are potentially more),
> > and the Whatsock designs don't work at all well in some cases. In
> > one specific case, JAWS 2018 announces that the combobox has been
> > set to a different value
> than has actually been selected.
> >
> > It's worth noting that even when the behaviour is acceptable, the
> > user experience is substantially different from a native combobox. I
> > find it disappointing and frustrating that the HTML5 and ARIA
> > specifications have not been written such that it is possible to
> > closely or exactly emulate a native combobox. It would be
> > interesting to know if there is a reason for this. It seems such an
> > obvious thing to
> want to do.
> >
> > I hadn't planned to post these comments yet but I felt obliged to
> > since you were recommending these designs. I will send Bryan
> > Garaventa my report as soon as it is complete. I very much hope that
> > he can fix his designs because they are better than any other
> > combobox replacements I have tested. However, I don't regard them as
> > being good
> enough to recommend to our clients yet.
> >
> > Steve Green
> > Managing Director
> > Test Partners Ltd
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
> > Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs
> > Sent: 14 March 2018 14:03
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Selects with drop downs
> >
> > Are these datalists?
> > https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_datalist.asp
> >
> > Otherwise, AccDC has some fantastic comboboxes:
> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%20Comb
> > ob oxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Editable%20and%20Readonly)/demo.htm
> >
> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%20Comb
> > ob
> > oxes%20(Native%20Inputs,%20Multiselect%20Editable%20with%20Substring
> > %2
> > 0Match)/demo.htm
> >
> > http://whatsock.com/tsg/Coding%20Arena/ARIA%20Comboboxes/ARIA%20Comb
> > ob oxes%20(Simulated,%20Readonly)/demo.htm
> >
> > There are several others, but you can find them in the technical
> > style guide.
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 5:54 AM, Ryan E. Benson
> > < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Pardon the title, I am not sure what these things are officially called.
> >> There's a group bent on using select elements aka dropdowns with
> >> built-in search/filter functions. I believe there was a thread here
> >> a while ago, but can't find it. Unless I am mistaken, the thread
> >> leaned towards not using them, even though they can be made
> >> accessible. The PM and the second developer didn't know what
> >> framework they were using, and have yet to hear back from the lead,
> >> but they think Bootstrap "or based on it."
> >>
> >> Any pointers would be great, since i have yet to get access to
> >> their code.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ryan E. Benson
> >> > >> > >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >> > >>
> > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >