WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: (Title element) WAS WCAG 2.1 - 1.3.5 - How to capture a violation?

for

From: John Foliot
Date: Jul 31, 2018 6:38AM

Johannes,

Please see my earlier response.

JF

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 1:22 AM, Fischer, Johannes < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

> Is the title attribute really not in the Accessible Name Calculation
> anymore? I think, it's still contained as last resort, look here:
> https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#step2I
> Letter I says: "Otherwise, if the current node has a Tooltip attribute,
> return its value".
>
> When you click on "Tooltip attribute", you get the following definition:
> "Any host language attribute that would result in a user agent generating a
> tooltip such as in response to a mouse hover in desktop user agents."
> In my opinion this is in the host language HTML the title attribute,
> because user agents generate a tooltip of this.
>
> What else should letter I be about if not the title attribute?
> Johannes
>
> > Von: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > im Auftrag von
> Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Juli 2018 02:39
> An: WebAIM Discussion List
> Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] (Title element) WAS WCAG 2.1 - 1.3.5 - How to
> capture a violation?
>
> I would oppose changes to drop the title attribute from being used for
> type input text and other form field name calculations. While it may not
> be preferred it has and continues to have widespread support and may be
> needed with certain CMS and legacy systems that don't support aria
> additions.
>
> Last I looked it was still listed.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 30, 2018, at 4:19 PM, John Foliot < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Birkir,
> >
> > I am a tad concerned however that the original link I provided (Text
> > Alternative Computation:
> > https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_te) did
> support my
> > claim, but then going back and looking at other specs I realized the
> error,
> > so it seems there may be a mis-sync within the group of specifications
> all
> > related to this topic (accessible name calculation). I plan on raising it
> > with the ARIA WG.
> >
> > From a practical perspective, I've long recommended that @title was not
> > providing the accessible name consistently (certainly not for images),
> and
> > so that technique should be avoided, but it seems that it still would
> meet
> > the technical (legal) requirement. The third point of my 3-part answer is
> > still accurate AFAIK
> >
> > JF
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> > <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hey John
> >> I thought it was a mistake, and nobody will balme you for getting this
> >> thing wrong with the thorough and detailed explanation you were
> >> providing on a different topic (that explanation has been duely saved
> >> to my favorites and given a write up in my accessibility guide related
> >> to WCAG 2.1).
> >> NO problem, glad this was a minor mistake of yours and not a
> >> substantive change in the W3C specifications.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 7/30/18, John Foliot < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>> So... I may have been wrong there...
> >>>
> >>> There are multiple documents now at the W3C related to
> name-calculation,
> >> so
> >>> that is a problem as well as a source of confusion.
> >>>
> >>> Further reading and research suggests that ARIA 1.1 no longer
> references
> >>> the @title attribute directly, but the *HTML Accessibility API Mappings
> >>> 1.0*
> >>> Recommendation *does* (
> >>> https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/#input-type-text-
> >> input-type-password-input-type-search-input-type-tel-
> >> input-type-url-and-textarea-element),
> >>> as does the *Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.1*
> >>> Recommendation (
> >>> https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/).
> >>>
> >>> *The ARIA 1.1 *spec says this about @title:
> >>>
> >>> (The accessible)
> >>> name comes from values provided by the author in explicit markup
> features
> >>> such as the aria-label
> >>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-label> attribute,
> >>> the aria-labelledby
> >>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-labelledby> attribute,
> >>> or the host language labeling mechanism, such as the alt or title
> >>> attributes
> >>> in HTML, with HTML title attribute having the lowest precedence for
> >>> specifying a text alternative.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So I mis-spoke, and apologize for adding confusion. It was late, I was
> >>> discussing a different topic, and didn't give enough research to that
> >>> point.
> >>>
> >>> JF
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> >>> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Agreed.
> >>>> For clarity, we are talking about the title attribute, not the title
> >>>> element.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Accessible name calculation algorithm has allowed use of the title
> >>>> attribute as a source of accessible name for years.
> >>>> It is accessible to more people than aria-label, which is purely a
> >>>> screen reader solution, without CSS or JavaScript custom
> >>>> implementation.
> >>>> For focusable element the title attribute is supported as a source of
> >>>> accessible name by the vast majority of common browser and screen
> >>>> reader combinations.
> >>>>
> >>>> Removing a valid source of accessible name from the accessible name
> >>>> algorithm that has been stable and used for years, on thousands of
> >>>> pages, needs a pretty strong justification in my opinion.
> >>>> It creates a lot of work and makes accessibility standards less
> >>>> credible and robust.
> >>>> Imagine recommending the use of a certain HTmL or ARIA attribute
> >>>> because it solves a problem and it is a valid technique listed in a
> >>>> standard.
> >>>> If there is precedent that such attributes are removed from the
> >>>> standard down the road, a product owner is not going to allocate
> >>>> deverloper time to add this attribute.
> >>>>
> >>>> Assistive technology support is not a valid reason , as far as I know,
> >>>> so what is?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 7/30/18, Joseph Sherman < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >>>>> I saw the exchange, that the Title element is no longer part of the
> >>>>> accessible name calculation. We have been using the following code
> for
> >>>> some
> >>>>> font icons- the plug in we are using allows only the addition of the
> >>>> Title
> >>>>> element to the font icons repository. Manually adding labels for
> every
> >>>> use
> >>>>> of the font icons is impractical, as most folks adding the icons are
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> code savvy, they just use the WYSWYG editor.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <a class="ts-font-icons-link " href="http://*/news/rss.html"
> >>>> target="_blank"
> >>>>> title="RSS Feed"><i class="ts-font-icon icon-rss_ko"
> >>>>> style="background-color:#ffffff; width: auto; height: auto;
> >> font-size:
> >>>> 31px;
> >>>>> line-height: 100%;color:#353a3d;"></i></a>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wouldn't it have be better to add the Title element to AT instead of
> >>>>> removing it from the Specification?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joseph
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>