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Re: ARIA Grid Discussion

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From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Aug 8, 2018 7:50AM

Jim, if I'm understanding this correctly, all it is is a one-row table
containing the headings, followed by another table containing the
data. If it's coded like this, devs can get the data to scroll while
the headings remain static above. I guess it's what the <thead> and
<tbody> tags were supposed to be for, but the desired behaviours never
really got implemented.

Birkir's suggestion works in Chrome with JAWS 2018, but NVDA doesn't
like it. I stopped using Firefox when it got flaky with JAWS, so I've
no idea how it would behave in that browser.

I guess Jonathan's hack is the only sure-fire way to make it work with
most screenreader/browser combos.

On 07/08/2018, Mohith BP < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Below examples from ARIA Authoring practice 1.1 can be referred.
> Latest NVDA on Firefox 52.9.0
> Supports for ARIA Grid.
> NVDA does detect the ARIA role table however row navigation (Ctrl +
> Alt + Down-arrow) does not work as expected.
> JAWS 16 has no supports ARIA Grid structure on both IE 11 and FF.
> Please refer the examples below:
> ARIA Grid:
> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/examples/grid/dataGrids.html
>
> ARIA Table:
> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/examples/table/table.html
>
> Note: I have not tested on Firefox 56 or greater.
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Mohith B. P.
>
> On 8/7/18, Jim Homme < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Hi Dawn,
>> I want to get to the bottom of this. We use NVDA mostly in Firefox. I
>> want
>> to look at some code that produces these things. Does anyone know of
>> samples
>> to view?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> Jim Homme
>> Product Manager
>> Digital Accessibility
>> Bender Consulting Services
>> 412-787-8567
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
>> People with disabilities, access job openings at
>> https://www.benderconsult.com/careers/job-openings
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
>> Don
>> Mauck
>> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 1:38 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Grid Discussion
>>
>> This becoming quite an issue with many of the Applications we use. Is this
>> a
>> case where JAWS just isn't handling the ARIA grid correctly, or is it
>> Firefox or for that matter any Browser?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jonathan C. Cohn < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 6:59 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] ARIA Grid Discussion
>>
>> Makes sense, vut I was not able to get that to work when i tried three
>> months ago.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Jonathan Cohn
>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>
>>> What about placing a div element around both tables, giving it a role
>>> of table, then use role="presentation" on the table elements.
>>> <div role="table">
>>> <table role=="presentation">
>>> <tr>
>>> <th>heading</th>
>>> </tr>
>>> ...
>>> </table>
>>> ...
>>> </div>
>>> Not sure if this works but technically the element with role="table
>>> now owns all the tr elements of the other two tables, so to a
>>> compliant assistive technology those look like a single table.
>>> I'd give it a 40/60 chance of working, but it would be an interesting
>>> experiment.
>>> That is, if I am understanding the problem correctly.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 8/3/18, Jonathan Cohn < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>> Ah, the wonderful floating table issues.
>>>>
>>>> We hide the 1column table and then have it in the main table but
>>>> hidden underneath the 1 column table
>>>>
>>>> I hope that makes sense. Though generally a table that is that big
>>>> gets very unwieldy for non screen reader users where they still have
>>>> to scan back to the first column to remember what they are looking at.
>>>>
>>>> In a lot of cases, one can have fewer columns and then a dialog or
>>>> separate window that can be brought up with all the details.
>>>>
>>>> Take care,
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan Cohn
>>>> .
>>>>> On Aug 3, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Jim Homme < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Just when you think you don't need to see a discussion, it comes up
>>>>> as a topic in testing after it has been talked about on list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking for info about making ARIA grids accessible.
>>>>> Specifically, to a screen reader it looks like we have a one row
>>>>> table followed by the rest of the table in a separate table. I want
>>>>> to understand what the issues are from a developer perspective. In
>>>>> otherwords, if the developer says something like "We are using this
>>>>> grid because it is responsive and we don't want to turn it into a
>>>>> single HTML table because it will break what we want it to do," how
>>>>> do I respond and show them they can have their cake and eat it too?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ==========
>>>>> Jim Homme
>>>>> Product Manager
>>>>> Digital Accessibility
>>>>> Bender Consulting Services
>>>>> 412-787-8567
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.benderconsu
>>>>> lt.com_our-2520services_hightest-2Daccessible-2Dtechnology-2Dsolutio
>>>>> ns&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=EQ0xAgqx
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>>>>> IqkuxFxG_YqE8&s=6viYyu9xfsyXFBSmCXHK4NdFVSzoRImOBgOzy7_Pf2g&e=
>>>>> People with disabilities, access job openings at
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.benderconsu
>>>>> lt.com_careers_job-2Dopenings&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7
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>>>>> AOCuxsMr1h7Huzk664&e=
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_
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>>>>> List archives at
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discu
>>>>> ssion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_Jn
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>>>>> ZKo&e= >>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&
>>>> d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=EQ0xAgqxGedi
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>>>> FxG_YqE8&s=4ZdIBGZ2mgbZynYn9CYLhihY69mUkWdq3VG2CV7TlHw&e=
>>>> List archives at
>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__webaim.org_discus
>>>> sion_archives&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&
>>>> r=EQ0xAgqxGediPFS2iJyMwtaJACO0PE04qO0-xFG1duE&m=cjuh6cWzOS6jn11cb_jJu
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>>>> e= >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>>> >>> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d
>>> =DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=EQ0xAgqxGediPF
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>>> >> >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__list.webaim.org_&d=DwICAg&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=EQ0xAgqxGediPFS2iJyMwtaJACO0PE04qO0-xFG1duE&m=cjuh6cWzOS6jn11cb_jJuoLyqjlLyeIqkuxFxG_YqE8&s=4ZdIBGZ2mgbZynYn9CYLhihY69mUkWdq3VG2CV7TlHw&e=
>> List archives at
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>> >> >> >> at
>> http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >