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Re: Longdesc replacement

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Apr 13, 2019 8:55AM

Then there's the story of aria-details, the supposed longdesc
replacement. The idea was good, but there is no supporting
implementation that I'm aware of.
See the excellent article "Getting the details on aria-details":
https://www.scottohara.me/blog/2018/11/08/aria-details.html
I grumbled about the lack of implementation for aria-details (and
other ARIA 1.1 attributes) in my Accessibility 24 article:
https://www.24a11y.com/2018/aria-1-1-whats-new/

Funny thing, I created a Code Pen example and filed issues on the Jaws
and NVDA GitHub pages. I cannot find the Jaws issue on their GitHub
repository any more, and I have not seen this issue fixed. I got to
dig up the direct links and post them back to this thread if the
issues are still valid, or create new issues if they were removed.
I also wonder why they were removed if they have not been fixed.

On 4/13/19, Mallory < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I've just been adding links to visible content sitting elsewhere. The places
> I would have used a longdesc are charts and graphs and things anyway. People
> other than blind and low-vision can appreciate a deeper textual description.
> I tell objecting designers to go back to their avocado toast and
> frappuccinos and let me get stuff done.
>
> This approach avoids pretty much all the longdesc/aria-foobar/polyfill stuff
> that I'm just too damn old for now. It's straightforward. It's easy for any
> non-specialist to determine if it broke during any updates. The
> domain-expert can check the description for accuracy. An automated tool can
> check for link-rot. It'll work on the oldest, crappiest user agent. Apple
> can't block it. The sun will rise again tomorrow.
>
> _mallory
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, at 7:05 PM, John Foliot wrote:
>> Hi Khaleel,
>>
>> So... here's the story, and a proposed path forward.
>>
>> @longdesc has great utility (and is/was, honestly, a good design and
>> pattern), however it was never properly implemented or supported by
>> browser
>> vendors, and as such it was never properly used or deployed by content
>> creators - a perfect storm of 'yech'.
>>
>> During the authoring of HTML 5, there were multiple acrimonious
>> "discussions" which became quite divisive - with, at one point, @longdesc
>> standing in as proxy for how some of the HTML 5 editors were treating
>> accessibility issues overall. Standards making at the W3C (as is
>> elsewhere)
>> can be a messy business, and the fate of @longdesc was such that while it
>> ultimately was 'accepted' to remain as part of the larger HTML 5 spec,
>> vendors (and in particular Apple) were very unhappy with that decision,
>> resulting in a "Formal Objection" being raised at the W3C. In cases like
>> that, the final arbitrator is actually Tim Berners-Lee, who decided to
>> let @longdesc remain. Apple in particular however did not like that
>> response (arrogant folks that they can be sometimes), and so despite the
>> fact that it *should* be a valid attribute, Apple refuses to support it in
>> VoiceOver or Safari (which ultimately means it will never work on a Mac /
>> iOS device).
>>
>> During those discussion, Apple proposed lots of other "potential"
>> solutions
>> (none of which, 5 years later, are robustly implemented everywhere, so
>> thanks for nothing Apple - see: https://cookiecrook.com/longdesc/), with
>> perhaps the exception of Standard link inside figure caption
>> <https://cookiecrook.com/longdesc/figure_link/>, which most designers have
>> rejected as not suitable due to the visual design impact it imposes. One
>> other potential solution, to use @details, still does not have universal
>> support (see: https://caniuse.com/#searchÞtails) although that can
>> probably be corrected using a polyfill (or will change once Edge adopts
>> the
>> chromium browser engine). The suggested SVG solutions still do not have
>> robust support (and the state of accessible SVG seems to have stalled).
>>
>> So... today the only real solution that I can see to provide a longer
>> description of a complex graphic is to hack around the pattern
>> that @details was supposed to deliver natively in the browser (until such
>> time as it does). I'll also note that the "example
>> <https://cookiecrook.com/longdesc/details/>" provided by James Craig
>> (@cookiecrook) isn't really providing a longer textual description, but
>> rather just a slightly more verbose @alt text, and I'll further suggest
>> that they way he's provided the example would never work for a truly
>> complex graphic such as this:
>> https://therenegadepharmacist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/coke1hr3.jpg
>>
>> Essentially however, I'd propose to create a "drawer" (i.e. an expanding
>> or
>> contracting div directly below the image) that would load by default
>> collapsed, and in that div provide the longer textual description. The
>> down
>> side of this technique however is that it still has a visual imposition on
>> the display, which some claim is a "benefit" (but don't have to deal with
>> picky graphic designers who might disagree). I've also seen examples where
>> verbose longer descriptions have been referenced by aria-describedby, but
>> the user-experience there for non-sighted users is sub-optimal, because
>> screen readers 'force' that (longer) description on the user (whereas
>> the @longdesc attribute suggested that a longer description was available,
>> but the user had to explicitly request it) - so I'd be careful about using
>> aria-describedby here.
>>
>> Other possible solutions is to re-use the javascript solution my buddy
>> Dirk
>> Ginader wrote for me (
>> http://blog.ginader.de/dev/jquery/longdesc/examples/webaim/index.php), or
>> (if you are using WordPress) implement Joe Dolson's accessibility plugin
>> (see:
>> https://www.joedolson.com/2014/03/update-wp-accessibility-longdesc/),
>> which riffs off of Dirk's example. Both of those solutions
>> polyfill @longdesc
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> JF
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 10:59 AM Khaleel Eksheir
>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm writing this email to ask about the use of "longdesc". Based on
>> > W3Schools <https://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_img_longdesc.asp>,
>> > "longdesc"
>> > is not supported by HTML 5 and all browsers. I tested "longdesc" using
>> > JAWS
>> > with Chrome, Firefox, and IE 11. It did not work with Chrome and
>> > Firefox.
>> > It worked with IE 11 but was confusing. What would be the replacement?
>> > is
>> > there a solution? Would a link tag <a> work?
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> > Khaleel
>> >
>> >
>> > Khaleel Eksheir, MSc.ESM | Assistive Technology Specialist
>> > UNC Charlotte | Fretwell 230Q | Office of Disability Services
>> > 9201 University City Blvd. | Charlotte, NC 28223
>> > Phone: (704) 687-0042 | Fax: (704) 687-1395
>> > <EMAIL REMOVED> | Free/Busy Calendar
>> > <
>> > https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=keksheir%40uncc.edu&ctz=America/New_York
>> > >
>> > | http://www.ds.uncc.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission or a person
>> > responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disclosure,
>> > copying, distribution, or other use of any of the information in this
>> > transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
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>> > in error, please notify me immediately by reply e-mail or by telephone
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>> > 704-687-0042. Thank you
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > --------------------------------
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> *​John Foliot* | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC
>> Representative
>> Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
>> deque.com
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


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