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Re: SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: May 3, 2019 12:51PM

I agree with your interpretation that the pronounciation of names and
places should be consistent with the document language, especially
when the language is the default language of the user or region.
Users are used to hearing names and words in foreign languages treated
a certain way, whether it's in the local media or via their screen
reader. I think it would only confuse the user if we started messing
with that and marking up single words or names with the proper
language tags.

I think over tagging is more likely to cause issues than under tagging.
I often run into issues when reading articles with embedded Twitter
feeds of non-native English speakers writing in English.
Twitter seems to automatically apply a language tagging based on the
user's location. This causes screen readers to try to read English
text with German, French or Spanish synthesizers which effectively
renders them incomprehensible to me, I just switch language detection
off.



On 5/3/19, Wolfgang Berndorfer < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> I don't know of any online resources about how proper names are pronounced
> or should be pronounced. How they are pronounced by a speech engine, you
> can
> test with a screen reader.
> But: How they should be pronounced, is my question. And technically that
> means, when should a proper name get a lang-attribute, if it's not a proper
> name of the default language.
> You mentioned an older guide for newspapers. Note, that my issue is about
> acoustic representation of proper names.
> Did this help?
> Wolfgang
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] Im Auftrag
> von <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 03. Mai 2019 17:41
> An: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names
>
> Hello Wolfgang,
> Are there any online resources for identifying how proper names are
> pronounced? Content developers are bound to encounter names where they do
> not know what language to use.
> Years ago, I helped maintain a newspaper style guide that included some
> pronunciation rules. I think this was done to help reporters be informed
> when dealing with the public. We did not give this guide out.
> Jeff Gutsell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Wolfgang Berndorfer
> Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2019 4:35 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [WebAIM] SC 3.1.2 lang exception: proper names
>
> Hi especially non-English native speakers,
>
>
>
> SC 3.1.2 takes out *proper names* from the obligation to attribute phrases,
> when phrase language differs from the language of the page. But why and
> when?
>
>
>
> I didn't find any further information in the W3C understanding section or
> in
> the archives of this discussion list, except for following small hint in
> the
> W3C understanding section:
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/meaning-other-lang-id.html#meanin
> g-other-lang-id-188-head
>
> "Providing language markup on proper names to facilitate correct
> pronunciation by screen readers (future link)"
>
>
>
> So I ask You for correction and comments to my following thoughts:
>
>
>
> 1. The pronunciation of the proper name through synthesized speech should
> sound similar to the pronunciation of the name in broadcast media in the
> default language of the document.
>
>
>
> German language radio stations commonly pronounce the name of English or
> French persons in an English or French way. French radio stations on the
> other hand pronounce any name usually in a French way. This is what
> listeners are used to and should hear from their speech engine.
>
>
>
> For example the name of the former French president, François Hollande, on
> German stations always was pronounced like it would have been in French. So
> no screen reader user would know, whom it's about, if "Hollande" was
> pronounced via German sythesizers. And for the English community on the
> other hand: Who is the man who is pronounced in German like Shwurzenega?
>
>
>
> So what stays from the exception for proper names in 3.1.2?:
>
>
>
> 2. Proper names need no lang-attribution, if the pronunciation between
> habitual and synthesized listening only differs in nuances of accentuation
> or intonation.
>
>
>
> Thanks for input!
>
>
>
> Wolfgang
>
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >
> > > > >


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