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Re: Browser and Screen Reader Combination

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From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Sep 23, 2019 6:48AM

Regarding NVDA and IE -- it has been my experience that NVDA did not address some of the shortcomings in IE and thus the support with the two will be more limited than other browser/AT combinations and may paint a picture of less access. Given that if you are using NVDA you more than likely have access to a different browser such as Firefox or Chrome it seems like IE and NVDA testing is combination not worth focusing on. If IE needs to be tested it is more likely in a situation where JAWS will be present such as in the US government.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 6:21 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination

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Given that you will not be testing with JAWS, I would recommend a minimum of:

' Chrome With NVDA
' Internet Explorer with NVDA
' Edge with Narrator

A lot of people also use Firefox with NVDA so you should check that too if you have time.

I would also recommend testing with Voiceover on macOS and iOS and with Talkback on Android. These are all free if you have the hardware.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Praunicorn
Sent: 23 September 2019 09:33
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination

Thank you for your reply Steve, it will be greaete help if you suggest best combination for Chrome and IE and Edge.

Regards,
Sreekar.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Steve Green
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 11:39 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination

You can test with any combination you like as long as you don't fool yourself or your client into thinking you have achieved more coverage than you actually have. Some issues will affect all screen readers, but others will only affect certain ones. For instance, testing with NVDA and Narrator will not find all the issues that would occur with JAWS.

Also, screen readers do not work exactly the same on all browsers. If you test with Chrome and NVDA, you will not find some of the issues that occur with Firefox and NVDA. There might not be many, but there is no way to know how important they are.

There are also differences between different versions of the same screen reader.

You have to learn to live with this uncertainty because there is no such thing as "total coverage" and even 95% coverage would require testing with a large number of combinations. The two combinations you propose probably cover no more than 5%. Any two combinations probably won't cover more than 15% (less than that if you can't use JAWS).

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Praunicorn
Sent: 22 September 2019 18:43
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination

Hi All,

I am very glad to know all this information from all of you, this is my luck that I have associated in this WebAIM list.

Ok, my targeted browsers are Chrome & IE or Edge, so I am planning below combination to start testing.

Note: Somehow my client is not willing to spend much money on screen readers and he wants to depend on Free screen readers like NVDA and other, so I am proposing below-mentioned combination since they are free. I thought of suggesting "JAWS" for "Edge" browser but due to budget issues, I am suggesting a below-mentioned combination. And I am ignoring the "IE" browser since Microsoft is not going to support this for any more and there are so many issues will occur if user use IE browser. If client still want to IE then I will go for JAWS.

' Chrome With NVDA
' Edge with Narrator

Please correct me is there any change in the combination.

Regards,
Sreekar

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Philip Kiff
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 6:45 AM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination

> Is JAWS and IE relevant anymore since IE will be poofed out of the MS
> infrastructure in early 2020?
Mmm. Good point, but is IE really disappearing in 2020?

Like I say, I'm not really on top of the current news on this - I only replied to this thread initially in order not to leave Sreekar in the lurch without any responses. There are many folks on this list who know considerably more than me about the state of screen readers and browsers.

But is IE really disappearing? There are still tons and tons of intranets and custom applications that have been coded poorly and will only work on IE. Those aren't going to disappear in 2020. I thought that what Microsoft was planning on doing was somehow magically incorporating an IE 11 emulator into Edge in order to guarantee that all those crappy intranets will still work for several more years while systems folk around the world scramble to recode what should have never been coded in the first place, or to create replacements that are written in proper, acceptable standards-compliant and somewhat-accessible code.

Aren't they even going to keep supporting IE 11 as an Enterprise product for a while?

If both those are true, then whether you call it Edge or IE 11, there will be lots of sites that still have to work with it? But like I say, I'm not sure if all that is true?

(And indeed, if Microsoft manages to actually pull off a modern browser that can smoothly switch between a Webkit rendering engine and some crazy IE 11 emulator, then someone over in their coding dept. will deserve considerable praise. But I wonder if all that will really be possible.... :-)

Phil.

On 2019-09-20 17:25, David Engebretson Jr. wrote:
> Is JAWS and IE relevant anymore since IE will be poofed out of the MS
> infrastructure in early 2020?
>
> Just curious. Here's what I test with:
> Safari on IOS, and OSX
> NVDA with Firefox and Chrome
> JAWS with Firefox, Chrome, and Edge
>
> Best,
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Philip Kiff
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2019 10:12 AM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Browser and Screen Reader Combination
>
> Hi Sreekar,
>
> The WebAIM list has a search function you can use to see if topics
> have been covered before:
> https://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>
> There have been many discussions about the best combinations of screen
> readers and browsers, for e.g.:
> Thread: Screen Reader Version & Browser Version Combination Matrix
> https://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread†98
>
> The best combination depends on several factors - including especially
> your target audience and what capacity you have for testing. Maybe
> your combination is right for you.
>
> Lots of folks seem to test with two or three of the following combinations:
> JAWS/Internet Explorer
> NVDA/Firefox
> Voiceover/Safari
>
> Phil.
>
> On 2019-09-20 12:52, Praunicorn wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Kindly help me with Browser and Screen Reader combination. I am
>> using
> below mentioned combinations for my testing. Please let me know I am
> in right combination or not.
>> 1. Chrome With NVDA
>> 2. Edge With Narrator
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sreekar.
>>