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Re: Are there major accessibility issues in Word, PowerPoint & Outlook

for

From: L Snider
Date: Nov 1, 2019 11:38AM

One thing to note is that Mac is still not fun, compared to PC
versions....Microsoft has made some great changes the last two years,
the checkers are getting better and easier to use...PowerPoint order I
think was tweaked in 2019..I use my Mac more than my PC these days, so
I can't check it right now on the fast insider (to see what is coming
up for the mainstream).

Cheers

Lisa

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 2:10 PM Philip Kiff < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > One critical thing is the order is from the BOTTOM to
> > top. Only reason I can think they did this is to be backwards compatible
> > with 2003 and prior back when it was added in 2007 or 2010.
> I always assumed that the reason PowerPoint reading order seems
> backwards is due to the sequential (and limiting) nature of the file
> format itself?
>
> There is no PowerPoint text stream like with Word. The objects in a
> PowerPoint are positioned more like content in a PDF file or a graphics
> file: it is like they are "painted" onto the page. The object at the
> bottom of the selection pane is "painted" first on the visual screen and
> it is therefore first in the reading order as well. Then subsequent
> objects are painted over top of that, until you get to the last item you
> want read, and it is painted last.
>
> The obvious problem with such a format is that it makes it impossible to
> have an object appear visually underneath another object and yet have it
> "read" later in the reading sequence. PDFs get around this with an
> entirely separate tag layer structure with a separate reading order. But
> PowerPoint files don't have any option like that.
>
> Phil.
>
> On 2019-11-01 12:35, Ryan E. Benson wrote:
> > By creating the order, are you talking about adding each object
> > individually? Since O13, you can go home > arrange > selection pane. In
> > O13, you have to use the up/down arrows provided to adjust. In O365, you
> > can draw and drop. One critical thing is the order is from the BOTTOM to
> > top. Only reason I can think they did this is to be backwards compatible
> > with 2003 and prior back when it was added in 2007 or 2010.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan E. Benson
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 11:08 AM glen walker < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> >> I still use an older version of PPT (2016) and I treat it as an authoring
> >> tool (ATAG). There is no way to mark images as decorative in the 2016
> >> version but the 2019 version allows it.
> >>
> >> PPT forces you (the user) to keep track of the reading order. The order
> >> that objects are created on the slide is the reading order. It would be
> >> really nice if PPT had an option to allow PPT to keep track of the reading
> >> order as left to right, top to bottom. Sometimes you don't want that order
> >> but the majority of the time that order would be correct. Forcing the user
> >> to manually create that order is ridiculous. Making and deleting objects
> >> and then moving them around is very common. Having to manually order the
> >> objects is just stupid. Doing it for one slide is a pain, let alone for
> >> 30, 50, or 100 slides in just one presentation, and then if you make lots
> >> of presentations, you'd spend most of your time ordering objects instead of
> >> creating content. It's a huge failure by Microsoft.
> >>
> >> Yes, I'm a bit testy about this particular subject. I have a 150 slide
> >> slidedeck for teaching WCAG (details of all 50 AA success criteria) and I'm
> >> always updating it with new examples (good and bad) and have to always
> >> adjust the reading order to keep the slides accessible. It's a big waste
> >> of time. Not a waste of time to make it accessible, it's a waste of time
> >> that PPT won't do it for you. It's easy to do, programmatically. I've
> >> written an object-oriented system before that kept track of the default tab
> >> order (essentially the reading order) when creating objects, moving them
> >> around, resizing, deleting, re-parenting, etc. It's absolutely doable and
> >> is a significant failure by the PPT product team to ignore such a feature
> >> when Microsoft says they focus on accessibility.
> >>
> >> Now, again, I'm using Office 2016, so maybe they fixed this problem in 2019
> >> or Office 365, so I can calm down. Would love to know if anyone has seen
> >> if this is fixed in the latest version.
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >