WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: Should NVDA announce "table" when itencountersCSSdisplay:table ?

for

From: Benjamin.Hofer@telekom.de
Date: Apr 21, 2021 12:14AM

Hi, as stated before, layout tables are no "real" tables and thus aren't particularly announced by screen readers. Actually this is a feature of screen readers that layout tables are recognized and "ignored". JAWS, but also NVDA offers this setting to be toggled on/off: In NVDA go to settings > Browse Mode and search for the corresponding option for announcing layout tables, it should be toggled off by default.

Best
Benjamin


DEUTSCHE TELEKOM IT GMBH
Digital Transformation and Operations - Central Operation Services 02
Benjamin Hofer
DevOps Engineer
Gutenbergstraße 13, 96050 Bamberg
E-Mail: <EMAIL REMOVED>
www.telekom.de

ERLEBEN, WAS VERBINDET.

Die gesetzlichen Pflichtangaben finden Sie unter: https://www.telekom.com/pflichtangaben-dtit
GROSSE VERÄNDERUNGEN FANGEN KLEIN AN – RESSOURCEN SCHONEN UND NICHT JEDE E-MAIL DRUCKEN.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > Im Auftrag von Michael Ausbun
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2021 00:23
An: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Should NVDA announce "table" when it encounters CSS display:table ?

For what it is worth,
In the JAWS settings, you can turn on recognition of layout tables, though by default I believe this option is toggled off.
I almost never find them…particularly helpful, so I, as a user, would prefer layout tables to be ignored…but as an accessibility professional, I do have the setting on…for authenticity sakes.
Respectfully,
Michael
--
Michael Duane Ausbun, MA, CPWA (He, His, Him) Accessibility Specialist, Program Development, Universal Design and Accessibility Team Ruston, Louisiana

Western Governors University
4001 South 700 East, Suite 700
Salt Lake City, UT 84107
<EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >


[IAAP CPWA small circular badge and horizontal name logo for International Association of Accessibility Professionals (IAAP) Certified Professional in Web Accessibility (CPWA) credential. To the left is a dark blue circle with three lines of centered white text that read: IAAP Certified CPWA. There is a smaller silver circle that surrounds the dark blue inner circle that designates the CPWA credential color scheme. To the right, three lines of dark blue text. Top text reads Certified Professional, second line reads in Web Accessibility, third line reads International Association of Accessibility Professionals.]<https://www.accessibilityassociation.org/cpwa>

[JAWS Certified, 2020]<http://www.freedomscientific.com/Certification>;





From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 4:49 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Should NVDA announce "table" when it encounters CSS display:table ?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] WARNING: This email originated from outside of Western Governors University.

As far as I can tell, browsers are supposed to expose the node as a table.

I expect that JAWS is not announcing it as a table because one of its heuristics is that a data table contains at least two rows and two columns, which your example does not. If you built a table of that size using div elements and the relevant table-cell and table-row roles, JAWS would probably announce it as a table.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >> On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: 20 April 2021 21:27
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >>
Subject: [WebAIM] Should NVDA announce "table" when it encounters CSS display:table ?

I found a page that has a <div style="display:table">. On Chrome, when I tab to an <input> contained in that <div>, NVDA announces "table" before it announces the input field. JAWS does not say "table".

If I view the accessibility properties in Chrome, it says the role is LayoutTable. A LayoutTable is not a real role with regards to ARIA roles.

Even though NVDA says "table", you can't use any table navigation keys.

I find this quite confusing. Should Chrome not be surfacing that this is a layout table? role="table" isn't specified anywhere. But whether a layout table is correct or not, JAWS seems to ignore it but NVDA does not.

Firefox does not announce "table" so there's no confusion there.

I took a quick look at NVDA bugs in github but didn't see anything offhand, but then I didn't look very hard.

This simple example shows the problem. The two button elements are only there to give me tab stops before and after the input field.

<button>foo</button>
<div style="display:table">
<input>
</div>
<button>foo</button>