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Re: Best Possible Audio Description


From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Date: Jul 27, 2021 1:16PM

What's the difference between a video player and an audio player when
you're blind? The video player controls are more familiar, that's all.
Sometimes, when doing presentations, or when I want to share the video with
sighted users, then the video component becomes more useful. But I don't
know if a video is a video unless I hear "video player", "youtube player"
or something similar.

Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>;

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 12:10 PM Peter Shikli < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Tim's comment about the blind preferring to use video players puts an
> unexpected hole in our plans to deliver the best possible audio
> description. This then becomes a call to the blind, not just the legally
> blind who are visually impaired, to let me know what the blind can gain
> from a video player when they are consuming the video content by themselves
> -- as compared to a proper audio description as a separate mp3 file.
> I hope no one is offended by the question, but I need this understanding
> to better serve the needs of the totally blind.
> Cheers,
> Peter Shikli
> Access2online Inc.
> ----------------------------------------
> From: "Tim Harshbarger" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: 7/27/21 7:34 AM
> To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >, "'Peter
> Shikli'" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description
> I feel like I should maybe try to clear up a possible misconception.
> Based on my personal experience, people who are blind use video players
> all the time. I frequently (almost on a daily basis) receive YouTube links
> from people who are blind. Additionally, I myself am totally blind (with no
> vision or light perception) and "watch" videos every day. It is rare that I
> watch a video with someone who is sighted. In fact, the only video I watch
> right now with anyone sighted is "Ted Lasso" with my brother on Fridays
> since we both are fans and it makes a great way to end a work week.
> By the way, no offense is taken about anything previously written. I just
> want to clarify any potential misconception that people who are blind might
> not be frequent consumers of video content as well.
> Thanks!
> Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Shawn Henry
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:34 PM
> To: Peter Shikli < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description
> Jonathan, Thanks for sharing that perspective.
> Peter,
> Some input:
> * For a "description of a how-to video":
> 1. ideally the how-to video has integrated description (
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/av-content/#integrate-description)
> 2. some people would much prefer a descriptive transcript (that includes
> audio and visual information in text) so they can consume it at their own
> pace
> * WCAG allows separate versions; that is, you can have a described version
> and a non-described version of the video.
> * You could additionally provide an audio-only alternative as you
> describe. (Though probably wise to confirm that your users really would
> find it useful, before doing it.)
> Hope that helps,
> ~Shawn
> On 26-Jul-21 8:16 PM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
> > Many legally blind people rely on audio description but also follow
> along and enjoy as much as possible with the visuals of video. Also people
> with disabilities watch videos together with other people and may want
> audio description with the visuals so sighted, non-sighted, and deaf/hard
> of hearing can all enjoy. Some folks are also visually impaired and hard of
> hearing and need both audio description and captions.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> > Peter Shikli
> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 8:46 PM
> > To: WebAIM Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> > Subject: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe.
> >
> >
> > July 23rd's thread about creating accessible technical how-to video
> content inspired some conversations in our shop about the best possible
> audio descriptions, which I will present for community feedback below.
> > More importantly, the best possible audio description seems to conflict
> with WCAG's requirements, and that is where we would truly appreciate some
> guidance.
> >
> > Let's begin by recognizing that we are not referring to closed captions.
> > Those are for the deaf whereas audio description are mainly for the
> blind, and their interests should remain our focus here.
> >
> > Our disagreement with WCAG begins with the requirement that an audio
> description be a feature of the video player as per their glossary's
> definition of an audio description being "synchronized" to the video (with
> that never mentioned in the numbered success criteria). For obvious
> reasons, the blind use video players about as much as they use mice. Audio
> in the form of a compact mp3 on their smartphones would serve their needs
> better than forcing them to put the megafile of a video somewhere just to
> listen to its audio description track.
> >
> > The audio track of the video is all they need, plus the scene
> descriptions between the dialog. That latter isn't a trivial requirement in
> practice. Consider scripting the scene description of a how-to video, which
> can be the key information of the video. If you thought an alt description
> of an image was tough, how about a scene packed with information, emotion,
> nuances, special effects, text images, and all the creativity of a
> Spielberg.
> >
> > Then comes the WCAG requirement causing us the most pain, the need to
> pack all that into the time slot between dialog for level AA. Putting a
> pause in the video while the audio description rolls complies at a AAA
> level but builds needless resentment among the sighted unless we're back to
> allowing a link to a version best for the disabled.
> >
> > Following is how we propose to make accessible the how-to videos sitting
> in my in-basket. First we extract the dialog plus music & sounds into a
> separate mp3. We then carefully script the meaningful scene descriptions.
> Then we have a trained voiceover artist read that scene script into the
> space between dialog, but expanding that audio whenever needed.
> >
> > Such a best-possible audio description would retain the original dialog
> for its artistic value. How much better than replacing Morgan Freeman's
> voice with an NVDA robot! And no NVDA robot for the scene description
> either. More of a Mark Twain story telling to keep the listener awake.
> > Much more satisfying and informative than a transcript for a screen
> reader.
> >
> > The end result would be a link near the video to a separate mp3 audio
> description that even busy sighted listeners may appreciate on their
> commute to work as a more accurate rendition of the video. My question is
> how to make this compliant to Title II and III of the ADA which requires
> WCAG 2.1 level AA?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Peter Shikli
> > Access2online Inc.
> > 29030 SW Town Center Loop East
> > Suite 202-187
> > Wilsonville, OR 97070
> > 503-570-6831 - <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > Cell: 949-677-3705
> > FAX: 503-582-8337
> > www.access2online.com
> > Prison inmates helping the internet become accessible
> >
> >
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