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Re: Best Possible Audio Description

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From: Andrews, David B (DEED)
Date: Jul 27, 2021 1:35PM

In an ideal world, you would be able to turn on and off audio description just like any other service in the player, such as captioning.

You need to be able to get to, and use all the controls from the keyboard.

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Peter Shikli
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 2:00 PM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description

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Tim's comment about the blind preferring to use video players puts an unexpected hole in our plans to deliver the best possible audio description. This then becomes a call to the blind, not just the legally blind who are visually impaired, to let me know what the blind can gain from a video player when they are consuming the video content by themselves -- as compared to a proper audio description as a separate mp3 file.

I hope no one is offended by the question, but I need this understanding to better serve the needs of the totally blind.

Cheers,
Peter Shikli
Access2online Inc.

----------------------------------------
From: "Tim Harshbarger" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: 7/27/21 7:34 AM
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >, "'Peter Shikli'" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description

I feel like I should maybe try to clear up a possible misconception.

Based on my personal experience, people who are blind use video players all the time. I frequently (almost on a daily basis) receive YouTube links from people who are blind. Additionally, I myself am totally blind (with no vision or light perception) and "watch" videos every day. It is rare that I watch a video with someone who is sighted. In fact, the only video I watch right now with anyone sighted is "Ted Lasso" with my brother on Fridays since we both are fans and it makes a great way to end a work week.

By the way, no offense is taken about anything previously written. I just want to clarify any potential misconception that people who are blind might not be frequent consumers of video content as well.

Thanks!
Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Shawn Henry
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:34 PM
To: Peter Shikli < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Cc: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description

Jonathan, Thanks for sharing that perspective.

Peter,

Some input:

* For a "description of a how-to video":
1. ideally the how-to video has integrated description (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2Fmedia%2Fav%2Fav-content%2F%23integrate-description&amp;data%7C01%7Cdavid.b.andrews%40state.mn.us%7C55a62c4926664cdccce408d951322dd8%7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c%7C0%7C0%7C637630098983908773%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=fYgQqGvxI5sZuTGiHGWDyyqk2bMqv0MVBxYpy%2Fd7uuE%3D&amp;reserved=0)
2. some people would much prefer a descriptive transcript (that includes audio and visual information in text) so they can consume it at their own pace

* WCAG allows separate versions; that is, you can have a described version and a non-described version of the video.

* You could additionally provide an audio-only alternative as you describe. (Though probably wise to confirm that your users really would find it useful, before doing it.)

Hope that helps,
~Shawn

On 26-Jul-21 8:16 PM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
> Many legally blind people rely on audio description but also follow along and enjoy as much as possible with the visuals of video. Also people with disabilities watch videos together with other people and may want audio description with the visuals so sighted, non-sighted, and deaf/hard of hearing can all enjoy. Some folks are also visually impaired and hard of hearing and need both audio description and captions.
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Peter Shikli
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 8:46 PM
> To: WebAIM Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Best Possible Audio Description
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> July 23rd's thread about creating accessible technical how-to video content inspired some conversations in our shop about the best possible audio descriptions, which I will present for community feedback below.
> More importantly, the best possible audio description seems to conflict with WCAG's requirements, and that is where we would truly appreciate some guidance.
>
> Let's begin by recognizing that we are not referring to closed captions.
> Those are for the deaf whereas audio description are mainly for the blind, and their interests should remain our focus here.
>
> Our disagreement with WCAG begins with the requirement that an audio description be a feature of the video player as per their glossary's definition of an audio description being "synchronized" to the video (with that never mentioned in the numbered success criteria). For obvious reasons, the blind use video players about as much as they use mice. Audio in the form of a compact mp3 on their smartphones would serve their needs better than forcing them to put the megafile of a video somewhere just to listen to its audio description track.
>
> The audio track of the video is all they need, plus the scene descriptions between the dialog. That latter isn't a trivial requirement in practice. Consider scripting the scene description of a how-to video, which can be the key information of the video. If you thought an alt description of an image was tough, how about a scene packed with information, emotion, nuances, special effects, text images, and all the creativity of a Spielberg.
>
> Then comes the WCAG requirement causing us the most pain, the need to pack all that into the time slot between dialog for level AA. Putting a pause in the video while the audio description rolls complies at a AAA level but builds needless resentment among the sighted unless we're back to allowing a link to a version best for the disabled.
>
> Following is how we propose to make accessible the how-to videos sitting in my in-basket. First we extract the dialog plus music & sounds into a separate mp3. We then carefully script the meaningful scene descriptions. Then we have a trained voiceover artist read that scene script into the space between dialog, but expanding that audio whenever needed.
>
> Such a best-possible audio description would retain the original dialog for its artistic value. How much better than replacing Morgan Freeman's voice with an NVDA robot! And no NVDA robot for the scene description either. More of a Mark Twain story telling to keep the listener awake.
> Much more satisfying and informative than a transcript for a screen reader.
>
> The end result would be a link near the video to a separate mp3 audio description that even busy sighted listeners may appreciate on their commute to work as a more accurate rendition of the video. My question is how to make this compliant to Title II and III of the ADA which requires WCAG 2.1 level AA?
>
> Cheers,
> Peter Shikli
> Access2online Inc.
> 29030 SW Town Center Loop East
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> Cell: 949-677-3705
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