WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

Re: Update: PDF Maker problems

for

From: Karen McCall
Date: Sep 28, 2021 6:09AM

As a follow-up to Bevi's identification of this failure of Adobe to pay attention to the impact that these changes have on those of us who depend on our adaptive technology to read PDF content, I tested images marked as decorative in Word then converted to tagged PDF using the PDF Maker tool.

I am NOT notified that there is an image at all which I would expect. What I do hear appears to be just text "P 8 Y U". I hear this each time I land on a decorative image.

"Y me?" good question. 😊

I can't even go in and artifact the decorative elements using the Content Panel.

I'm also noticing that a TOC is now being identified as a list of X items which makes me think I'm in the body of the document not in the TOC...but the individual items in the "list" aren't being identified as list items. This is affecting my legacy Accessible PDF as well as the ones I'm creating now. The TOC should not be reading as a list!

My recommendation for those of us using adaptive technology is to use the Export to Word in Acrobat , not the Save As...I find I get better results using Export PDF then choosing Word. Or, get a program like ABBYY FineReader or OmniPage Pro and open the PDF in that application then save as Word. I don't use Reader so don't know if that tool is available in Reader.

Am going to test PowerPDF and Foxit to see if I get the same results. Usually they follow the Adobe framework so this might be happening in those tools as well.

I don't understand why Adobe and others don't address accessibility bugs. We shouldn't have to vote on our right to read. Access to education and employment is a human right.

Cheers, Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 7:14 PM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Update: PDF Maker problems

Echoing what Lisa says. I just ran into issues with this today, and cannot thank you enough Bevi for your work and detailed documentation on this. I've linked to your blog post from a government intranet area up here in Ontario to serve as a resource to tide folks over until Adobe pushes up a new version.

Phil.

Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

On 2021-09-27 17:07, L Snider wrote:
> Thanks for all your hard work on this and the removal instructions! I
> really hope they get this sorted...It shows they do no testing on the
> back end with users who do accessibility, or users with disabilities,
> when they make major changes. I hope this spurs change, it is 2021.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lisa
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 5:48 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Thanks to everyone who posted their concerns (and other "feelings")
>> about the recent problems with PDFs exported from Word with Adobe's
>> PDF Maker plug-in. We have more than 150 votes at
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> familyhandyman.com%2Fproject%2Fgarage-floor-resurfacing-fix-a-pitted&
>> amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f6
>> 40afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
>> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
>> 3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=SJSspE%2F9I0GzvzRozYiqr34e5bVeG%2FvS3VJLSAk9AvY%3
>> D&amp;reserved=0
>> -garage-floor/
>>
>> (As some commented, what does it mean when we have to vote to get
>> bugs
>> fixed?)
>>
>> Some good news and not so good news.
>>
>> 1. Our blog that details the problems also has some help
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fblog%2F2021-09-24_bugs%2Fbugs_pdfmaker_1.shtml&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=UX23GaxYUSVlPRTjcX7hOhgWhmm%2ByBLvDfZdbvMVyKw%3D&amp;reserved=0:
>>
>> a. A handout you can use to export PDFs from Word using Microsoft's
>> built-in PDF utility. At this time, it's not putting in any of the
>> problems as Adobe's, but who knows. Both companies have been known to
>> seriously botch this process.
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> pubcom.com%2Fblog%2F2021-09-24_bugs%2Fbugs_pdfmaker_1.shtml%23downloa
>> d&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9
>> f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
>> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn
>> 0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=%2FSD2Ssrio1lPYVzCzcsdB9pKEXhGCYOXZkN6H1R1%2FCo
>> %3D&amp;reserved=0 We've given our instructions a creative commons
>> license, which will allow you to electronically distribute it within
>> your organization.
>>
>> 2. Adobe has said they are working on a bug fix for the missing
>> Alt-text on graphics.
>>
>> 3. But upon further testing over the weekend, we've documented another
>> twist on that bug: When a graphic is manually marked in Word as
>> decorative / artifacted, the resulting tagged PDF is a mess:
>>
>> a. PDF Maker adds gibberish code as Alt-text.
>>
>> b. It is tagged as <P> with the image data. Not only is this a
>> violation of the PDF/UA-1 standard (image data must be in a <Figure>
>> tag), but it is voiced as a confusing bunch of crud: no announcement
>> that there's an image, the screen readers pick up the gibberish Alt-text.
>>
>> c. See the September 27 update to our blog at
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> pubcom.com%2Fblog%2F2021-09-24_bugs%2Fbugs_pdfmaker_1.shtml%23sept27&
>> amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f6
>> 40afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
>> sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%
>> 3D%7C1000&amp;sdataaZawF%2BolECfgoksKQUUF9I5oQidELxfReVf%2BZn8ufc%3
>> D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> 4. Issues are found in the Mac update as well, including this one
>> about dragging/dropping in Acrobat's tree panels:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcomm
>> unity.adobe.com%2Ft5%2Facrobat-discussions%2Facrobat-pro-accessibilit
>> y&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9
>> f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
>> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn
>> 0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=7MFSDg0tECszMMrMhe8IOoupSxXk7%2BQp47Km86fRolY%3
>> D&amp;reserved=0
>> -tools-not-working/m-p/12408086#M331041
>>
>> 5. And I'll end on some good news. Adobe has released the super-secret
>> instructions on how to remove the current buggy version of Acrobat
>> and roll back to the previous install. See Ankit Kumar Gupta's
>> solution at
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.adobe.com%2Ft5%2Facrobat-discussions%2Finstall-the-previous-patc&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=SfgvzaV5x2UtwxBO0IcriJFbYcz795yQJGA001ddLKc%3D&amp;reserved=0
>> h-update/m-p/12387847#M3... Suggestion: keep that information for future
>> reference, and pass it along to your IT department.
>>
>> My best to you.and please encourage others to vote.
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician |
>> <EMAIL REMOVED> <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>>
>> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
>>
>> Upcoming classes at
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
>> ubcom.com%2F&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7
>> C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnkn
>> own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw
>> iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=KLOh3YpDGgWb9Y3UQ7YBo4bPokosL3gpYDOJ
>> 1pGEm8c%3D&amp;reserved=0
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>> pubcom.com%2Fclasses&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d982
>> 0c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63768381285959323
>> 2%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
>> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=qu5NS%2BFtkPJLTvPviuX36HsRdm
>> 45t54JTxd03XTzcDY%3D&amp;reserved=0> classes
>>
>> - - -
>>
>> Latest blog-newsletter
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmai
>> lchi.mp%2Fe694edcdfadd%2Fclass-discount-3266574&amp;data%7C01%7C%7
>> C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%
>> 7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
>> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=W
>> 7kl136GJf0AiwR4jd1X1Q3qsatcBjMTjOgeqjQpVGk%3D&amp;reserved=0> -
>> Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
>> .pubcom.com%2Fblog%2F2020_07-20%2Falt-text_part-1.shtml&amp;data%7
>> C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaa
>> aaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859593232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi
>> MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp
>> ;sdata=u0GT7vAe2ZCLPbKBuVfuzF029sB4N0eOMPoflGvwXTk%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.
>> webaim.org%2F&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%
>> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859603225%7CUnk
>> nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
>> wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=nP9MsK1FVGjevBh8tpr049GE0v25xtM5y%2
>> BokA5nC8%2FI%3D&amp;reserved=0 List archives at
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebai
>> m.org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae943748
>> 37008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63768381
>> 2859603225%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
>> IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdataÛEhPBa2KPFI2bZnpeK
>> iuOtSHF%2Frs2eFU1zBMIz1KcI%3D&amp;reserved=0
>> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.w
> ebaim.org%2F&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837008d9820c9271%7C
> 84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637683812859603225%7CUnknow
> n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=nP9MsK1FVGjevBh8tpr049GE0v25xtM5y%2BokA5
> nC8%2FI%3D&amp;reserved=0 List archives at
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebaim
> .org%2Fdiscussion%2Farchives&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C39e183fafae94374837
> 008d9820c9271%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63768381285
> 9603225%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC
> JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdataÛEhPBa2KPFI2bZnpeKiuOtS
> HF%2Frs2eFU1zBMIz1KcI%3D&amp;reserved=0
>