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Re: [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems


From: Steve Green
Date: Sep 29, 2021 3:52AM

I know how to change the text colour of a style, but if your document contains 20 styles, how do you change the colour of them all at the same time? Likewise, if you have multiple slide masters in PowerPoint, which most of our clients do.

Also, bear in mind that it's the non-technical end user that needs to change the colours, not us, so diving into the paragraph style settings would be very scary. By contrast, changing the colours in Adobe Reader is trivially easy and it applies to all the text.


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Karen McCall
Sent: 29 September 2021 10:45
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

I use the Microsoft tool all the time. I only use the other tools like Acrobat, PowerPDF and Foxit when doing a comparison of how all the tools create tagged PDF.

Yes, you can change all of the colours for text in a Word document at the same time!

Modify the style. For example, if you don't like the default blue of Headings, use the ability to modify them by right clicking in either the Quick Styles Gallery, the Styles Pane or in the Apply Styles Pane (Ctrl + Shift + S) activate the modify button. You can then change the colour, size, font, paragraph settings, border, shading...any of the attributes for that style. As you accept the changes for this document only or for documents based on this template, the changes will be made throughout the document or additionally, for new documents based on the template.

If you need more detailed instructions, I have them, just let me know.

Same is true in PowerPoint, make changes to text on the slide master and it is done for the entire presentation. Save the current template and you can even save the template as a Theme and apply it to other slide presentations. Also have a conference handout on how to do that.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Steve Green
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 4:15 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

Returning to the topic of Microsoft's PDF export utility for Word (File / Save As / PDF), why do so many of you not use it? Are there any specific things it does badly?

I have done a comparison between it and the "Save As Adobe PDF" option, and the Microsoft export works better for all the content types that we deal with. Almost every document we work on needs to comply with both PDF/UA and WCAG 2.1 AA, so if the Microsoft export was problematic I think we would know about it.

That said, I am well aware that there are some content types that we never encounter, such as mathematical and chemical formulae, embedded audio and video and probably a lot more.

And to answer Susan's question, a well-produced PDF will invariably be more accessible than the source document, but the extent of the difference depends on the nature of the content. For example, in a PDF you can artifact all decorative images and shapes so they are not exposed to assistive technologies. You can't do that in a Word document. Even if you mark an image as decorative, screen readers announce "decorative image". This is extraordinarily annoying if the document contains a lot of decorative images or shapes such as lines, boxes and arrows.

You cannot use a screen reader's single-key navigation shortcuts in Word, so there is no way to jump to the next type of element such as a list, graphic or table. Also, it is easier to select different colours for the text and background in a PDF - I am not aware of a way to change the colour of the text in all paragraph styles at the same time in Word.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Karen McCall
Sent: 28 September 2021 16:55
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; <EMAIL REMOVED>
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

I forgot to mention that PowerPDF has little or no keyboard support.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of David Farough
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 11:46 AM
To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

From the standpoint of a screen reader user, Foxit is a real pain to use.
Verry limited keyboard support for functionality; Poor or no undo capabilities; We use this at the office, but I have chosen to use Adobe at home instead.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of <EMAIL REMOVED>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 11:28 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; 'WebAIM Discussion List' < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

Karen, here's FoxIt's website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxit.com%2F&amp;data%7C01%7C%7Ce18749d6fbe947cd904f08d983214d45%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637685001348218201%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=LEyldQBHrDSXndx5%2FMdRKDh37oONmGPo5MeDky8SAoU%3D&amp;reserved=0

FYI, a couple years ago, folks inside FoxIt told us that they wrote Microsoft's PDF export utility for Word (that's File / Save As / PDF).

For those who need this information, Foxit's headquarters are in Fremont, California, but the company is incorporated in Fujian, China, and is listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange STAR Market (symbol 688095). It is not a US company, no matter what their website says.

Since we now have companies with offices around the world, always look for where a company is incorporated, and on which country's stock exchange it's listed. That shows a company's true pedigree.


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Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> > <EMAIL REMOVED>

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PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing

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From: Karen McCall < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 11:11 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; <EMAIL REMOVED>
Cc: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: RE: [Athen] Update: PDF Maker problems

I just bought Kofax PowerPDF - My instance of Nuance PowerPDF wouldn't install. Kofax bought the print part of Nuance in 2018 or 2019 so my guess is that Nuance is no longer supporting even the install of PowerPDF.

I bought the PowerPDF Advanced which has the tagging capability. Standard does not.

On an untagged PDF with headings, lists and page numbers in a coloured box, everything got tagged as a <P> even the lists. This means that for this 10 page document with at least 4 lists on each page, the lists are going to have to be manually tagged.

There is no Content Panel in PowerPDF.

For the untagged document, when I opened the Reading Order Panel (which you have to do EVERY time you want to use it - it is not added to the Navigation
Pane) and tried to designate both the page number and the image the page number was in/on, I was able to artifact the page number but the <Figure> tag was still in the Reading Order Panel but not in the Tags Tree and when I tried further remediation to get rid of the <Figure> tag, PowerPDF crashed.
I was using standard remediation techniques - nothing strange or outside of what I would normally try.

For a tagged PDF that I use as my benchmark accessible Word document then use the conversion tools to create the PDF, parts of table gridlines and decorative images were "stuck" to text and without a Content Panel, I couldn't remove them. They didn't show up in the Reading Order Panel but did show up in the Tags Tree. For example: "PathIntroductionPathPathPath".

When Kofax purchased the Nuance PowerPDF I did call them and ask about their continued commitment to accessible PDF and patiently went over tags and their importance. Even their developers had no clue what I was talking about and they didn't seem interested in further discussions.

Am trying to find a Foxit website where I can get Foxit. I had the Foxit for Business and was working with them on accessibility/tags but they lost interest and my complimentary copy ran out. I can find all sorts of third party download sites but want to purchase from Foxit.

One final note.for this post.on PowerPDF. Kofax hasn't improved the visibility of the "Autotag" button. It is a tiny button with no label to the left of the settings/Options button just above the Tags Tree. It has an even tinier plus sign on it so the visibility of the button looks like a "glitch"
in the software rather than a functional button. If you right click on No Tags Available, you can only add a Tags Root. However, the PowerPDF Ribbon in Word does create a tagged PDF by default.

Kofax PowerPDF Advanced is $179 USD or 238 CAD and is a one time payment. If there is a significant upgrade you would pay for it.

Will keep you updated on my research.

Cheers, Karen