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Re: Non-existent Alt-text voiced in PDF

for

From: Colleen Gratzer
Date: Mar 6, 2023 9:38AM

Hi, Bevi.

The icons are Illustrator format (.ai). They are non-decorative and
include text (icons in place of text to depict file formats).

The actual text was added in InDesign.

In the PDF, if they are inside a P tag, only the actual text is voiced,
as should be the case. If they are inside a list tag, the actual and
Alt-text get voiced.

I just realized maybe they are not voicing Alt-text as well, but the
text inside the image as well. So I checked the icons and converted the
text to outlines.

Regardless, it doesn't make sense why the same icons were voicing one
way inside a P tag and another inside a list tag.

But now the figures that were inside the P voice with the word "graphic"
and the actual text (as if they had Alt-text), and the ones in the list
voice just with the actual text, as expected.

<shrug>

Colleen


On 3/6/23 11:15 AM, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
> Colleen, just checking to make sure I understand the situation.
> The icon graphics are made in Adobe Illustrator and then used as bullets and as anchored graphics in paragraphs in the InDesign layout, correct?
>
> Questions:
> 1. What file format is being used to bring them into the InDesign layout?
> 2. Is the graphic icon file flattened? And does it contain only the icon image, not anything else?
> 3. At what stage in the workflow is the Alt Text and Actual Text being added to the icon: in Illustrator or InDesign?
> 4. Since InDesign doesn't allow us to use graphics as bullets, how did you get your icons to become bullets?
>
> You have 5 stakeholders in this scenario: Illustrator and how it encodes a file; InDesign and how it encodes a PDF when exported; Acrobat and how it processes the content in the PDF; and 2 screen readers, NVDA and JAWS, and how they process/render the file.
>
> —Bevi
> — — —
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <EMAIL REMOVED>
> — — —
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> — — —
> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Colleen Gratzer
> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 8:53 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; Philip Kiff < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Non-existent Alt-text voiced in PDF
>
> These are Adobe Illustrator files imported into InDesign.
>
>
> On 3/6/23 8:33 AM, Philip Kiff wrote:
>> One more long shot:
>>
>> I wonder if the non-decorative icons you're working with are SVG files
>> originally? It is possible to include alternative text directly in the
>> XML code that generates the actual SVG file. Such alternative text is
>> optional in the file format, and so some icons may have it while
>> others don't. And so maybe NVDA and JAWS are actually reading the
>> alternative text from the file, regardless of how else the image is
>> tagged....Seems unlikely, but worth checking.
>>
>> Phil.
>>
>> On 2023-03-05 20:39, Colleen Gratzer wrote:
>>> Thanks, Philip. I checked that too just in case.
>>>
>>> But I did notice that If I change the list to P tags in the PDF, then
>>> they voice fine. Now that is even stranger!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/5/23 7:56 PM, Philip Kiff wrote:
>>>> Mmm....that stumps me, too.
>>>>
>>>> Long shot: one thing you might check is that the alternative text /
>>>> actual text you hear in NVDA and JAWS is not being picked up from
>>>> the list item's Label tag or a bullet image nested inside the Label
>>>> tag (if either exist), or from the parent tag of the P tag inside
>>>> the list item - like the LBody tag?
>>>>
>>>> Phil.
>>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-05 11:44, Colleen Gratzer wrote:
>>>>> I'm hoping to get some insight on an issue I am having.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a page with a few different non-decorative icons. Some are
>>>>> inside P tags and some inside a list.
>>>>>
>>>>> They all have actual text applied, which was previously applied as
>>>>> Alt-text. The Alt-text was removed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've confirmed in the tag properties in the PDF that there is no
>>>>> Alt-text.
>>>>>
>>>>> NVDA and JAWS voice only the actual text for the icons *inside P
>>>>> tags* but they read the actual text *and* previously applied
>>>>> Alt-text for the icons *inside the list. *
>>>>>
>>>>> I have renamed the files with every check in case Acrobat was
>>>>> caching the file content.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have restarted Windows. I have restarted Acrobat. I have tested
>>>>> this on 2 different computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I confirmed that there is no Alt-text set on these icons,
>>>>> even in the tag properties.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am stumped.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Colleen Gratzer
>>>>> Creative Boost and Gratzer Graphics https://creative-boost.com
>>>>> https://gratzergraphics.com
>>>>> >
> > > >