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Re: Non-existent Alt-text voiced in PDF

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From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Mar 6, 2023 9:15AM

Colleen, just checking to make sure I understand the situation.
The icon graphics are made in Adobe Illustrator and then used as bullets and as anchored graphics in paragraphs in the InDesign layout, correct?

Questions:
1. What file format is being used to bring them into the InDesign layout?
2. Is the graphic icon file flattened? And does it contain only the icon image, not anything else?
3. At what stage in the workflow is the Alt Text and Actual Text being added to the icon: in Illustrator or InDesign?
4. Since InDesign doesn't allow us to use graphics as bullets, how did you get your icons to become bullets?

You have 5 stakeholders in this scenario: Illustrator and how it encodes a file; InDesign and how it encodes a PDF when exported; Acrobat and how it processes the content in the PDF; and 2 screen readers, NVDA and JAWS, and how they process/render the file.

—Bevi
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Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | <EMAIL REMOVED>
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PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
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-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Colleen Gratzer
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 8:53 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >; Philip Kiff < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Non-existent Alt-text voiced in PDF

These are Adobe Illustrator files imported into InDesign.


On 3/6/23 8:33 AM, Philip Kiff wrote:
> One more long shot:
>
> I wonder if the non-decorative icons you're working with are SVG files
> originally? It is possible to include alternative text directly in the
> XML code that generates the actual SVG file. Such alternative text is
> optional in the file format, and so some icons may have it while
> others don't. And so maybe NVDA and JAWS are actually reading the
> alternative text from the file, regardless of how else the image is
> tagged....Seems unlikely, but worth checking.
>
> Phil.
>
> On 2023-03-05 20:39, Colleen Gratzer wrote:
>> Thanks, Philip. I checked that too just in case.
>>
>> But I did notice that If I change the list to P tags in the PDF, then
>> they voice fine. Now that is even stranger!
>>
>>
>> On 3/5/23 7:56 PM, Philip Kiff wrote:
>>> Mmm....that stumps me, too.
>>>
>>> Long shot: one thing you might check is that the alternative text /
>>> actual text you hear in NVDA and JAWS is not being picked up from
>>> the list item's Label tag or a bullet image nested inside the Label
>>> tag (if either exist), or from the parent tag of the P tag inside
>>> the list item - like the LBody tag?
>>>
>>> Phil.
>>>
>>> On 2023-03-05 11:44, Colleen Gratzer wrote:
>>>> I'm hoping to get some insight on an issue I am having.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a page with a few different non-decorative icons. Some are
>>>> inside P tags and some inside a list.
>>>>
>>>> They all have actual text applied, which was previously applied as
>>>> Alt-text. The Alt-text was removed.
>>>>
>>>> I've confirmed in the tag properties in the PDF that there is no
>>>> Alt-text.
>>>>
>>>> NVDA and JAWS voice only the actual text for the icons *inside P
>>>> tags* but they read the actual text *and* previously applied
>>>> Alt-text for the icons *inside the list. *
>>>>
>>>> I have renamed the files with every check in case Acrobat was
>>>> caching the file content.
>>>>
>>>> I have restarted Windows. I have restarted Acrobat. I have tested
>>>> this on 2 different computers.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I confirmed that there is no Alt-text set on these icons,
>>>> even in the tag properties.
>>>>
>>>> I am stumped.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Colleen Gratzer
>>>> Creative Boost and Gratzer Graphics https://creative-boost.com
>>>> https://gratzergraphics.com
>>>>