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Re: Inaccessible table

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From: tim.harshbarger@deque.com
Date: May 24, 2023 7:36AM


I am not aware of any WCAG success or conformance criteria that require that the inaccessible content be concealed or hidden. I believe the relevant conformance criteria just require that, if the content cannot be made accessible, an accessible alternative is provided, clearly marked as an accessible alternative, and exists on the same page.

There are a handful of success criteria where it is not allowed to provide an accessible alternative. However, this is not one of those situations.

Personally, I am always a bit reluctant to hide content from screen reader users. While there are people with visual impairments who only use a screen reader, there are also people with disabilities who can see and use a screen reader. For those people, the original table may not be so inaccessible since they will be seeing and listening to the information. However, everything in this paragraph is just a personal opinion--so is definitely not necessary to follow to conform with WCAG.

If I erred regarding any of the WCAG requirements, I am sure one of our other knowledgeable experts will chime in and help clarify what is necessary for WCAG conformance.

Thanks!
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of Sumit Patel
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 7:29 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Inaccessible table

alt + ctrl + arrowkeys won't work here as screen reader does not identify it as table. just using arrow keys - down and up arrow .

We have given use aria table as a solution. but, their response was the component code is not in their control . so, they can't these many attributes on that . So, they have given this pdf file to confirm with WCAG.

Coming back to the trouble or confusion which is going to be faced by screen reader users regarding the table, is it goinggoing to violate any sc of WCAG or just going to be a best practice

I am sure this approach not going to give a good user experience for them

On 24/05/2023, <EMAIL REMOVED> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I would also make sure that the PDF is clearly indicated as an
> accessible alternative to the table. And the accessible alternative
> should be visible so anyone can access it.
>
> I am less certain I might hide the table from screen readers. There
> are people with disabilities who can see but use screen readers or
> technologies like screen readers. Hiding the content from a screen
> reader may impact their user experience as well.
>
> Thanks!
> Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < <EMAIL REMOVED> > On Behalf Of
> Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 6:31 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Inaccessible table
>
> The tagged PDF falls under the W3C definition of conforming
> alternative, (as long as you can link directly to it from the page
> with the inaccessible table and it has all the same info as the table,
> which appears to be the case here).
> The content order issue with the table is troublesome nevertheless.
> Does the table contain focusable elements, like buttons? If so hiding
> it from screen reader users with aria-hidden="true" is not really an option.
> If it does not have focusable elements, then you can hide it that way
> and offer up the PDF as an alternative.
> If it does you may need to add a button to switch between table view
> and link to the PDF file for all users.
> Finally, there should be a way to fix the table and code it properly
> or work around it with ARIA, the team may just need more guidance onhow to do that.
> Without seeing the actual source code I cannot offer up an opinion on ow.
>
>
>
>
> On 5/24/23, Sumit Patel < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Hai,
>>
>> I have a table which has column headers , row headers and tooltips
>> inside most of the cells.
>> When A screen reader user navigates on this table with arrow keys ,
>> would not get to know anything as the reading order is completely
>> incorrect.
>> On arrow key, first focus goes to the row headers, then , column
>> headers , tooltips and finally to the cells .
>> Table structure is not get identified . so, the don't even know this
>> is a table unless a sighted user explains the structure
>>
>> Seems like The dev team does not able to provide table structure as
>> they have technical limitation to make changes on this component .
>>
>> So, they have given a PDF file next to this table which serves the
>> ame purpose . The pdf file is accessible .
>>
>> So, my question is is it enough to meet WCAG ? because though the
>> information can be conveyed to screen reader user in an accessible
>> alternative , screen reader user will have a feeling that they are
>> missing something when the reader read out all the information in the
>> above given order .
>>
>> Do we need to ask to hide the table from screen reader and provide a
>> a short alt text for the same and informing them an accessible
>> alternative is provided in the form of pdf below .
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sumit.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
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